ᐅ With or without an architect’s plan? (General contractor / shell construction)
Created on: 19 Jan 2019 21:35
L
Lucrezia
Hello!
We have a plot of land and want to build.
At the end of 2017, we contacted a log house company that immediately convinced us. We found the consultations to be good and comprehensive, the houses we visited were very nice, and the expected price was excellent. So we commissioned the experienced and friendly company architect with the first drawings and building inquiry.
Problem: For the finished house measured at the top of the foundation slab, we were initially given a price that was at least $100,000 lower than it actually would be (all just estimated because we would have to purchase the trades ourselves). Now we want to look at other providers, for example, timber frame construction, or determine the actual price of the trades.
A friend who is an architect has been trying to convince us for a long time to first create a detailed plan that not only includes the house design and floor plan but also describes all services and materials in detail, so that we can request offers from a general contractor or individual trades.
After the initial disappointment, this approach seems sensible to us in order to avoid surprises during or after the construction phase.
Problem: This detailed plan is not exactly cheap.
And I wonder: what if it is unnecessary? For example, if we hire a general contractor who provides transparent offers with no hidden costs anyway? Does such a thing exist? 😉 (It seems to me that Keitel-Haus and Hagemann are transparent. Both offer rather affordable packages including planning, submission for building permits/planning permission, etc.).
I look forward to your opinions and experiences!
We have a plot of land and want to build.
At the end of 2017, we contacted a log house company that immediately convinced us. We found the consultations to be good and comprehensive, the houses we visited were very nice, and the expected price was excellent. So we commissioned the experienced and friendly company architect with the first drawings and building inquiry.
Problem: For the finished house measured at the top of the foundation slab, we were initially given a price that was at least $100,000 lower than it actually would be (all just estimated because we would have to purchase the trades ourselves). Now we want to look at other providers, for example, timber frame construction, or determine the actual price of the trades.
A friend who is an architect has been trying to convince us for a long time to first create a detailed plan that not only includes the house design and floor plan but also describes all services and materials in detail, so that we can request offers from a general contractor or individual trades.
After the initial disappointment, this approach seems sensible to us in order to avoid surprises during or after the construction phase.
Problem: This detailed plan is not exactly cheap.
And I wonder: what if it is unnecessary? For example, if we hire a general contractor who provides transparent offers with no hidden costs anyway? Does such a thing exist? 😉 (It seems to me that Keitel-Haus and Hagemann are transparent. Both offer rather affordable packages including planning, submission for building permits/planning permission, etc.).
I look forward to your opinions and experiences!
Fuchur schrieb:
The fact is, since there are fixed suppliers, not every precisely chosen brick, exotic tile, or other special request can be fulfilled. And I would say, "and that's a good thing." If you change many ingredients in a proven formula, the purpose of selecting a general contractor (GC) can become diluted. As I always say, "make use of the installer’s routine and don’t have a bricklayer who specializes in red bricks lay white bricks (or vice versa)," this applies similarly to both wall finishes and wall construction. When it comes to tiles, I even boldly claim that you can only really notice the color difference between "Sand Beige Turin" from manufacturer X and "Sand Beige Madrid" from manufacturer Y in the highest price ranges :-)
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
face26 schrieb:
I believe the original poster means that there are cost items coming up that were not included in the quote. (Additional work, items "to be provided by the client," entrance platform, etc.)Ah, I see... that makes sense, and so does this sentence:
Lucrezia schrieb:
By "transparent" I mean that the general contractor really lists all costs. As laypersons, we might miss something. Or is this concern unjustified? Are there ways to be sure we don’t overlook anything?All costs that may still arise on the client’s side...
Some clients need to be told exactly what they require, while others prefer to create and manage their own list. Okay, that can possibly lead to unplanned gaps.
I think that with the construction documents, there is also a paper outlining possible as well as necessary costs.
Aside from that, you have already been actively involved with the house building topic for over a year, so you probably have all kinds of costs in mind by now.
Thank you for your constructive comments! @Fuchur I finally found your post too 🙂
No worries. I’m a therapist and the architect was once my client.
Exactly, by transparency I meant knowing which cost items will come up that we, as laypersons, might not realize are missing from the quote.
You’re expressing exactly how I feel.
That’s why we don’t want to request exotic or specialized services. Our architect just said it’s important to create a detailed list of exact services (I can’t think of the term right now… Included would be, for example, the number of power outlets, materials, etc.).
face26 schrieb:
I’m afraid to ask because I’m scared of the answer. :p
No worries. I’m a therapist and the architect was once my client.
Exactly, by transparency I meant knowing which cost items will come up that we, as laypersons, might not realize are missing from the quote.
11ant schrieb:
And I would say: "and that’s a good thing." If you change many ingredients in a tried-and-tested formula, the point of choosing a general contractor becomes blurred. What I always say is, "use the builder’s routine and don’t ask a bricklayer to do plastering (or vice versa)."
You’re expressing exactly how I feel.
That’s why we don’t want to request exotic or specialized services. Our architect just said it’s important to create a detailed list of exact services (I can’t think of the term right now… Included would be, for example, the number of power outlets, materials, etc.).
ypg schrieb:
Apart from that, you have already been actively involved with the house building topic for over a year, so you certainly have a handle on all kinds of costs.That would be a logical conclusion 😉 but since we were focused on one company for so long and only dealt with the house model, preliminary building inquiry (building permit / planning permission pre-application), and our space requirements (the price initially seemed so low that we hardly paid attention to it), we are only now starting to uncover the actual costs.
Well, and this is happening to two experienced freelancers who are otherwise used to regularly dealing with costs and services :-/
Then it’s best to start here:
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/liste-der-anfallenden-baunebenkosten-bauseits-teurer.9737/
And here:
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/warum-ein-hausbau-fast-immer-teurer-kommt-als-kalkuliert.16237/
You won’t get a complete list from either a general contractor (GC) or an architect. An architect usually works with cost estimates at the beginning, and a GC will provide their own scope of work, which is always customized. You won’t be able to avoid going through everything point by point.
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/liste-der-anfallenden-baunebenkosten-bauseits-teurer.9737/
And here:
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/warum-ein-hausbau-fast-immer-teurer-kommt-als-kalkuliert.16237/
You won’t get a complete list from either a general contractor (GC) or an architect. An architect usually works with cost estimates at the beginning, and a GC will provide their own scope of work, which is always customized. You won’t be able to avoid going through everything point by point.
S
Schlenk-Bär20 Jan 2019 09:21face26 schrieb:
and the general contractor (GC) naturally has their own specific scope of work.I often struggle with all these abbreviations. Is there an overview available somewhere in this forum? Thanks.
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