ᐅ With or without an architect’s plan? (General contractor / shell construction)
Created on: 19 Jan 2019 21:35
L
Lucrezia
Hello!
We have a plot of land and want to build.
At the end of 2017, we contacted a log house company that immediately convinced us. We found the consultations to be good and comprehensive, the houses we visited were very nice, and the expected price was excellent. So we commissioned the experienced and friendly company architect with the first drawings and building inquiry.
Problem: For the finished house measured at the top of the foundation slab, we were initially given a price that was at least $100,000 lower than it actually would be (all just estimated because we would have to purchase the trades ourselves). Now we want to look at other providers, for example, timber frame construction, or determine the actual price of the trades.
A friend who is an architect has been trying to convince us for a long time to first create a detailed plan that not only includes the house design and floor plan but also describes all services and materials in detail, so that we can request offers from a general contractor or individual trades.
After the initial disappointment, this approach seems sensible to us in order to avoid surprises during or after the construction phase.
Problem: This detailed plan is not exactly cheap.
And I wonder: what if it is unnecessary? For example, if we hire a general contractor who provides transparent offers with no hidden costs anyway? Does such a thing exist? 😉 (It seems to me that Keitel-Haus and Hagemann are transparent. Both offer rather affordable packages including planning, submission for building permits/planning permission, etc.).
I look forward to your opinions and experiences!
We have a plot of land and want to build.
At the end of 2017, we contacted a log house company that immediately convinced us. We found the consultations to be good and comprehensive, the houses we visited were very nice, and the expected price was excellent. So we commissioned the experienced and friendly company architect with the first drawings and building inquiry.
Problem: For the finished house measured at the top of the foundation slab, we were initially given a price that was at least $100,000 lower than it actually would be (all just estimated because we would have to purchase the trades ourselves). Now we want to look at other providers, for example, timber frame construction, or determine the actual price of the trades.
A friend who is an architect has been trying to convince us for a long time to first create a detailed plan that not only includes the house design and floor plan but also describes all services and materials in detail, so that we can request offers from a general contractor or individual trades.
After the initial disappointment, this approach seems sensible to us in order to avoid surprises during or after the construction phase.
Problem: This detailed plan is not exactly cheap.
And I wonder: what if it is unnecessary? For example, if we hire a general contractor who provides transparent offers with no hidden costs anyway? Does such a thing exist? 😉 (It seems to me that Keitel-Haus and Hagemann are transparent. Both offer rather affordable packages including planning, submission for building permits/planning permission, etc.).
I look forward to your opinions and experiences!
I would argue that these two things exclude each other. On one hand, you want to define all the "services and materials" upfront and then take the plan to a general contractor (GC).
That’s not how it works. Every GC has a standard scope of services. Most will also build according to your floor plan and exterior elevations, but the basis will always be the GC’s construction specification. Next, you would try to determine what fits and what needs or should be changed. Companies vary in how flexible they are in this regard. The fact is, since there are fixed suppliers, not every carefully selected brick, exotic tile, or other special request can be fulfilled. Even with a shell house, many things are firmly fixed—and then you face your original problem again: you have to manage things yourself and get quotes for the remaining work. The price is difficult to calculate in advance.
... in the end, you end up paying for many services twice and for nothing.
That’s why, from my point of view, there should be a clear separation. Preliminary planning with individual contracting, or a floor plan with a GC and the inclusion of one or two "special features."
That’s not how it works. Every GC has a standard scope of services. Most will also build according to your floor plan and exterior elevations, but the basis will always be the GC’s construction specification. Next, you would try to determine what fits and what needs or should be changed. Companies vary in how flexible they are in this regard. The fact is, since there are fixed suppliers, not every carefully selected brick, exotic tile, or other special request can be fulfilled. Even with a shell house, many things are firmly fixed—and then you face your original problem again: you have to manage things yourself and get quotes for the remaining work. The price is difficult to calculate in advance.
... in the end, you end up paying for many services twice and for nothing.
That’s why, from my point of view, there should be a clear separation. Preliminary planning with individual contracting, or a floor plan with a GC and the inclusion of one or two "special features."
Lucrezia schrieb:
Problem: the mentioned plan is not exactly cheap. And I wonder: what if it’s unnecessary?How can a plan be unnecessary?
Lucrezia schrieb:
which anyway creates transparent quotes and has no hidden costs? Is there such a thing? 😉 (it seems to me that Keitel-Haus and Hagemann are transparent. Both offer rather affordable packages including planning, submission, etc.).What do you mean by “transparent costs”? A general contractor (GC) calculates and coordinates the trades, manages tendering and logistics. This affects every line item. I’m not sure what is transparent to the end customer here, since the GC will not show their books or disclose their profit margin. Neither will Keitel-Haus or Hagemann. And if I have to pay a flat fee for the building permit application, hidden costs are surely included—whether the actual costs incurred or the fees the GCs keep as their remuneration. And what would be unclear about that?
Lucrezia schrieb:
Problem: the mentioned plan is not exactly cheap.How much is the plan supposed to cost? Will the architect charge according to HOAI (the official fee structure)?
Thank you for your feedback, YPG 🙂
A plan definitely needs to be made, but the question is whether it should be done by an external, independent architect or an architect from within the company.
By "transparent," I mean that the general contractor should list all costs clearly. As laypeople, we might miss something. Or is this concern unfounded? Are there ways to make sure we don’t overlook anything?
According to HOAI, our architect friend wouldn’t charge us since he is from Austria. We might pay him in kind instead. However, it is still undecided whether we should hire a German architect to simplify the official procedures, as that would presumably be cheaper and not subject to HOAI?
A plan definitely needs to be made, but the question is whether it should be done by an external, independent architect or an architect from within the company.
By "transparent," I mean that the general contractor should list all costs clearly. As laypeople, we might miss something. Or is this concern unfounded? Are there ways to make sure we don’t overlook anything?
According to HOAI, our architect friend wouldn’t charge us since he is from Austria. We might pay him in kind instead. However, it is still undecided whether we should hire a German architect to simplify the official procedures, as that would presumably be cheaper and not subject to HOAI?
Lucrezia schrieb:
A plan definitely needs to be made; the question is whether it should be done by an external, independent architect or an in-house company architect.I consider a design from an independent architect to be of higher quality than one from an employee. The independent architect tends to be more innovative—every project serves as advertising for their name.
Lucrezia schrieb:
By "transparent," I mean that the general contractor truly lists all costsBut they don’t. They don’t write, for example, cost x plus profit y equals z to be paid. Their line items are mixed calculations, as is common in most trades. A business needs to make a profit. And why would they reveal their operating costs just to be transparent to the client? I don’t understand what you mean or expect in that regard. Otherwise, @Fuchur has already written a lot.
Lucrezia schrieb:
And maybe we will pay in kind. I don’t dare ask because I’m afraid of the answer. :p
ypg schrieb:
I don’t understand what you mean or expect. I think the original poster means that additional costs will come up that were not included in the quote. (extra work, items “to be provided by the client,” entrance platform, etc.)
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