ᐅ Window Quote Evaluation – Is This Acceptable?

@Dr Hix @dertill @Lumpi_LE @11ant
Thanks for the comparison figures.
So, you would rather go with the following option:
Take the windows including the lift-and-slide door from that supplier BUT have the external blinds installed by another contractor?
As I said, I’m convinced by the quality of the profiles and the window installer’s workmanship.
And according to what you said, the prices for the windows and lift-and-slide door seem reasonable.

Oliver696 schrieb:
But your question is completely justified.

I’m pointing this out mainly because this single advantage of the Quadro XP over the Quadro P is easily overlooked.

Oliver696 schrieb:
BUT having the blinds offered by another service provider?

In my experience, the price of blinds is consistently too high everywhere (if they’re not overpriced, they usually aren’t good quality). It’s basically a penalty for people who turn their windows into huge sun traps without providing natural shading in their garden – like the motto “expensive means extra cost.”

Dr Hix schrieb:
Lift-and-slide door
2300 x 2125, laminated on both sides

For lift-and-slide (and front) doors, I wouldn’t want any laminating at all, because I would never choose plastic for them. Being cheap is understandable, but it’s definitely not a good idea to “save” money in the worst possible place.

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11ant schrieb:
I wouldn’t consider adding film to lift-and-slide (and front) doors, because I would never, ever choose plastic for those. Being cheap isn’t worth it to the point of “saving” in the absolute worst place.

Are you generally hesitant about plastic here because of the risk of frame warping? From your perspective, would aluminum be a better choice?

Oliver696 schrieb:
Would aluminum be better from your perspective?

From my point of view, aluminum is the most suitable material (and significantly more cost-effective compared to high-quality wood). In my opinion, regardless of who might consider this snobbish, plastic is an inferior material for windows. But I respect everyone’s choice to believe they have found a great way to save money.

I have already explained this in detail recently: https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/hausbilder-thread.14011/page-678#post-284935

Oliver696 schrieb:
Are you generally reluctant about plastic here because of the risk of frame warping?

Simply put, yes, although plastic profiles usually have integrated steel cores. For sliding lift doors, the weight presses down on the track and rollers, and in the budget segment that’s where cost-cutting often happens. Cheap sliding lift doors tend to become stiff more quickly – a bodybuilder might not mind, but his delicate partner probably will. When it comes to front doors, their much higher stress compared to less frequently operated elements is often underestimated. A lot of the price is tied up in burglar resistance, so a “cheaper” frame often doesn’t make much difference overall.

To be clear: “this is what the dentist would recommend to his family” – my time as an aluminum window manufacturer is over, and personally, I don’t “lose” anything today if a customer chooses to buy plastic.

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11ant schrieb:
But I’m happy for everyone to have their peace of mind, believing they’ve found a good way to save money.

I’m always keen to learn something new.

In the linked post, you mention that “good” quality uPVC windows cost only about 20% less than aluminum ones.

If I take an average of the uPVC window quotes I have (25,000€), fitting aluminum windows would end up costing me around 31,000€. So, with good quality uPVC windows, I’m already saving 6,000€. As a saver, I might opt for lower quality uPVC windows and achieve a 30% saving?! That would mean almost 9,500€ saved, which I would also need to borrow from the bank and pay interest on. Over 20 years at 2.2%, that adds up to 11,750€.

Now I have to consider how many of my window units will likely fail over the years and what it will cost to replace them at future prices. Assuming 21,700€ (30% less than aluminum) and 2% inflation, the same windows would cost around 32,200€ in 20 years. Compared to my initial savings, this suggests that 36% of my windows could fail within 20 years without me regretting my financial decision against aluminum.

If I also think about how attached I’ll still be in 2038 to windows made in 2018, given technological advancements, I can’t see the argument for aluminum.

Interestingly, I have an offer from a manufacturer who provides a 20-year warranty on their uPVC units (including the lift-and-slide doors) but still prices in the mid-range mentioned. Are they crazy? ;-)

Manufacturers don’t have to be crazy to offer such a warranty (although, of course, the question remains what exactly is being guaranteed). These units won’t break apart in the sense of falling to pieces.

Aluminum windows from around forty years ago are still worth their price today because they still look like new (technically, they have probably been readjusted and had mushroom-shaped locks retrofitted). I myself cannot distinguish vinyl windows from aluminum ones at a normal viewing distance, as long as they are relatively new. After about 15 to 20 years, however, the surface will show signs of plasticizer loss. Then they can be refitted with new foil and look good again.

Aluminum windows from about fifty years ago are still in great condition today, but that doesn’t help much: they were designed differently back then (they lack thermal breaks between the interior and exterior), and they were mostly available only in brushed or anodized finishes, which are now less popular. The advantage that once justified their higher price has therefore disappeared.

But that’s not a problem, as it doesn’t affect my opinion that vinyl is good enough, nor does it affect your judgment if you see it differently. What matters is that we have both explained our perspectives, and now each reader can decide which “side” they want to join. The only thing all truths have in common is that none of them is the only one ;-)

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