ᐅ A three-family house planned without a basement—your feedback on my floor plan.
Created on: 14 Sep 2018 11:50
T
tumaa
Hello everyone,
First of all, thank you for letting me join the forum 🙂.
We (parents and 3 children, aged 10, 8, and 3) have bought a plot of land.
Size: 1170 m² (12,573 sq ft)
Special feature: commercial area
Building project: a three-family house with approximately 300 m² (3,229 sq ft), about 150 m² (1,615 sq ft) for us on the ground floor, and around 73 m² (786 sq ft) for each unit on the upper floor.
There is a single-family house on the plot, which is planned to be demolished.
The preliminary building approval was already positive.
At first, it was planned (I hadn’t really thought about it) that the new building would be constructed on the footprint of the old one.
Then I consulted an architect.
He recommended moving the new building further back on the plot (further north).
Reason:
+ The rear part of the plot is wider, which is better for the building
+ Making better use of the south-facing side for the living and dining area would be more efficient 🙂, plus my wife has a cooking channel with frequent video recordings, so she needs a lot of natural light. (This is very important for us)
We then inquired at the building authority, but the idea was rejected.
Reason: since it is a commercial area, the new building must be constructed on the footprint of the old one. Otherwise, the building office must consider that neighbors might take legal action.
Right next door is a joinery workshop, but production takes place on the other side, so only the warehouse is adjacent. The joiner initially wanted to buy the plot as well; we then received the agreement.
The plot is basically on a corner, separated from the next neighbors by a small path.
My idea was perhaps to get a written confirmation from the neighbors, including the joiner 🙂, stating that they agree with moving the new building further back (see attachment "Site Plan 2"). There is basically no objection; no one would be disturbed (e.g., no loss of view, etc.), and it will be built anyway 🙂.
Otherwise, I would have to stick to the first site plan.
There is also a preliminary floor plan (see attachment).
Another idea: the attic (roof shapes are not specified) could later be used as living space, for example for our son; however, it may only be considered “extended living space” according to the building authority. We are building without a basement, so the attic could initially be used as additional storage.
Question:
- What do you think of our design? At first glance, we like it, but what would you do differently and why?
or
- How else could the house be well positioned?
- Since two rental apartments are planned, what else should be considered, for example regarding privacy?
I’m new to this topic, so please be understanding if I forgot something 🙂.
Thank you in advance and I’m looking forward to your feedback 🙂!!!
First of all, thank you for letting me join the forum 🙂.
We (parents and 3 children, aged 10, 8, and 3) have bought a plot of land.
Size: 1170 m² (12,573 sq ft)
Special feature: commercial area
Building project: a three-family house with approximately 300 m² (3,229 sq ft), about 150 m² (1,615 sq ft) for us on the ground floor, and around 73 m² (786 sq ft) for each unit on the upper floor.
There is a single-family house on the plot, which is planned to be demolished.
The preliminary building approval was already positive.
At first, it was planned (I hadn’t really thought about it) that the new building would be constructed on the footprint of the old one.
Then I consulted an architect.
He recommended moving the new building further back on the plot (further north).
Reason:
+ The rear part of the plot is wider, which is better for the building
+ Making better use of the south-facing side for the living and dining area would be more efficient 🙂, plus my wife has a cooking channel with frequent video recordings, so she needs a lot of natural light. (This is very important for us)
We then inquired at the building authority, but the idea was rejected.
Reason: since it is a commercial area, the new building must be constructed on the footprint of the old one. Otherwise, the building office must consider that neighbors might take legal action.
Right next door is a joinery workshop, but production takes place on the other side, so only the warehouse is adjacent. The joiner initially wanted to buy the plot as well; we then received the agreement.
The plot is basically on a corner, separated from the next neighbors by a small path.
My idea was perhaps to get a written confirmation from the neighbors, including the joiner 🙂, stating that they agree with moving the new building further back (see attachment "Site Plan 2"). There is basically no objection; no one would be disturbed (e.g., no loss of view, etc.), and it will be built anyway 🙂.
Otherwise, I would have to stick to the first site plan.
There is also a preliminary floor plan (see attachment).
Another idea: the attic (roof shapes are not specified) could later be used as living space, for example for our son; however, it may only be considered “extended living space” according to the building authority. We are building without a basement, so the attic could initially be used as additional storage.
Question:
- What do you think of our design? At first glance, we like it, but what would you do differently and why?
or
- How else could the house be well positioned?
- Since two rental apartments are planned, what else should be considered, for example regarding privacy?
I’m new to this topic, so please be understanding if I forgot something 🙂.
Thank you in advance and I’m looking forward to your feedback 🙂!!!
kaho674 schrieb:
Well, if financing isn’t a big issue, then you obviously have enough money to hire an architect or draftsman to prepare some design drafts for you. But they will probably ask for payment first. No one will pick up a pencil before the money is secured, because it’s pointless.I didn’t say that at all; I just wanted to know what you think about the design. I’ve already learned some useful things.
haydee schrieb:
Gutting is not the same as clearing out Interior doors, windows, insulation, electrical cables removed, wood and ceiling paneling taken down
The quote is extremely cheap. Do you have comparison offers?Yep...some were also in that range...the most expensive was 70,000.
P.S. Yes, including disposal of doors, windows, etc.
Josephine248915 Sep 2018 19:10I might make myself quite unpopular here, but why does a family of five build such a large house instead of a smaller one that:
1. they actually own themselves, avoiding the stress with tenants and missing rental income, etc.
2. has mortgage payments that can realistically be managed by a single earner?
There are house sizes suitable for a single-family home that also fit three children...
Or is this prevented by the "commercial space" argument...???
I don’t quite understand this way of thinking and these dimensions, sorry...
1. they actually own themselves, avoiding the stress with tenants and missing rental income, etc.
2. has mortgage payments that can realistically be managed by a single earner?
There are house sizes suitable for a single-family home that also fit three children...
Or is this prevented by the "commercial space" argument...???
I don’t quite understand this way of thinking and these dimensions, sorry...
tumaa schrieb:
I can’t say exactly how the legal situation stands And you’re already planning the floor plans without knowing if you’re even allowed to build a purely residential house?
So what exactly happened from a building regulation perspective?
tumaa schrieb:
The preliminary building inquiry was already positive. What was requested there? Just the demolition?
tumaa schrieb:
Then asked the building authority afterwards Who? You? The architect? Orally? Preliminary building inquiry?
tumaa schrieb:
The idea was rejected. By whom? Orally? Formal rejection notice? Any comments from your architect?
tumaa schrieb:
The building authority has concerns if the house is built further back Makes sense. There is a building line to the south that must be observed in both designs, which you have not followed. If you want to move back, you need an exemption, but your neighbors cannot approve it since it is not a neighbor-protecting regulation.
Here
tumaa schrieb:
Reason: because commercial area you also mention a second reason, which is even more important as it calls the whole concept into question, not just the location of the new building on the lot.
In this case, it might be worth considering building a commercial unit on the ground floor with a long-term lease instead of two rental apartments.
Please share the information from the development plan (a generous excerpt of the graphical part and the textual regulations). Then we can take a closer look.
Escroda schrieb:
And you’re already planning the floor plans without knowing if you’re even allowed to build a purely residential house?
What exactly happened with the building regulations?
What was requested? Just the demolition?
By whom? You? The architect? Orally? Building pre-approval request?
From whom? Orally? Rejection notice? Your architect’s comments?
Sure. There is a building line to the south where construction must take place, and you are not respecting it in either design. If you want to set back, you need an exemption, which the neighbors cannot grant because it is not a neighbor-protecting regulation.
Here
you mention a second reason, which is even more important because it calls the entire concept into question, not just the location of the new building on the plot.
One should rather consider building a commercial unit on the ground floor with a long-term lease instead of two rental apartments.
Please provide the information from the zoning plan (a generous excerpt showing the graphic part and textual regulations). Then we can take a closer look.- In the building pre-approval request, the following was applied for:
a building with 3 residential units on the site where the old building currently stands. So first demolition and then the new building, and a purely residential building is also allowed there, as was confirmed to me in writing.
- The pre-approval request was submitted in writing beforehand, at that time I had not yet consulted an architect.
- The rejection for the new building location at the rear was communicated to us orally, or directly to the architect. He said they are concerned that someone from the neighborhood might file a lawsuit, so I wanted to speak with the neighbors again.
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Josephine2489 schrieb:
I might make myself unpopular here, but why build such a large house for a family of five that isn’t:
1. Owned outright, avoiding stress with tenants and missing rental income, etc.?
2. Affordable on a single income?
There are single-family home sizes that would also work for three kids...
Or is that not possible because of the “commercial area argument”?
I don’t quite understand this mindset and these dimensions, sorry...Hi, no problem at all if you’re critical about it.
1) I spoke with a few financial advisors... several confirmed to me that a purely single-family house is pure luxury, and with a rental property, not everything would be on my shoulders.
I also thought about the future: if the kids don’t stay, we could move to a smaller apartment. We can still manage stairs for a few years, and maybe we’ll talk to the architect about whether a duplex might make sense too 🙂
2) I probably should have mentioned: my wife works part-time (permanent contract) and I’m confident that in a few years she could become self-employed with her cooking channel. She’s already earning some income from it.
3) I could also just build a single-family house only.
Josephine248915 Sep 2018 21:12tumaa schrieb:
- In the preliminary building inquiry, the following was requested:
a property with 3 residential units, on the site where the old building currently stands. So first the demolition and then the new construction, and a purely residential building can be realized there, as was communicated to me in writing.
- The preliminary building inquiry was made in writing beforehand, at which point I had not yet consulted an architect.
- The rejection for new construction in the rear area was communicated to us verbally, or directly to the architect. He said they are concerned that someone from the neighborhood might file a lawsuit, so I wanted to talk to the neighbors again.
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Hi, no, I have no problem if you want to express some critical points.
1) I spoke with a few financial advisors... several confirmed to me that a single-family house is pure luxury, whereas with a rental property not everything rests on my shoulders.
I also thought about the future — if the children might not stay, then we could move to a smaller apartment. We could still manage stairs for a few years, or maybe we could talk to the architect to see if a duplex might make sense as well 🙂
2) I maybe should have mentioned, my wife works part-time (permanent contract) and I’m sure that in a few years she could become self-employed with her cooking channel. She is already earning some income from it.
3) I could also just build a single-family houseIf additional income is expected, I would definitely plan a single-family house, assuming this is allowed by the regulations and zoning plan.
If rental income is a must, regardless of the reason, a duplex sounds better to me.
But that is just my personal impression.
Josephine2489 schrieb:
If you expect additional income, I would definitely plan a single-family house, if allowed by the regulations and zoning plan.
If rental income is a must, regardless of the land, a semi-detached house sounds better to me.
But that’s just my personal opinion.I talked to our architect about it...
We can still decide anytime, but he listed the disadvantages for us:
- You need two separate entrances, which reduces rentable living space more than now, and you only get one (large) apartment per floor on two floors, so only 2 units on 2 floors (instead of 3 units as mentioned above). (I need to clarify this again; there might be a misunderstanding here)
- It’s difficult to downsize an apartment or make similar changes,
whereas with a central staircase there’s much more flexibility in accessing and dividing the apartments
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My/our idea: the right half of the semi-detached house entirely for us spread over 2 floors plus attic, and rent out the left half with 2 apartments (ground floor and upper floor).
Advantages for us would be:
- a bit more privacy and we could fully use our side, especially if we convert the attic; and in the evening we wouldn’t run into neighbors in the staircase like in the first option. Instead of planning 3 children’s rooms, we could plan 2, as our son could move into the attic.
- and if we end up living alone after the children move out, we could take the smaller apartment on the ground floor and rent out our large apartment again.
What do you think?
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