ᐅ Condensing Gas Boiler, Air-to-Water Heat Pump, Fuel Cells – Request for Advice
Created on: 9 Apr 2018 20:46
G
gmt94
Hello everyone,
We are currently in the planning phase for our new home. We are building an urban villa of about 157 m² (1,690 sq ft) according to energy-saving regulations.
My favorite option until this morning was a heat pump with deep geothermal drilling plus a conventional fireplace. However, the drilling company declined the order today due to too high a risk. So I need a new heating alternative.
We are three people: man, woman, and toddler, possibly a fourth child. The child usually takes a bath daily, so there will likely be a relatively high hot water consumption. A rain shower would be desirable.
1. Air-to-water heat pump – somehow I just can’t get comfortable with this option. On one hand, it bothers me that the system is very sensitive to outside temperature, and on the other hand, I’m concerned about the appearance on the house and the noise.
2. Gas condensing boiler with solar hot water support and central ventilation with heat recovery. Since this requires a relatively large water storage tank, I thought of installing a water-bearing (water-carrying) fireplace. This would reduce the risk of overheating the living room, among other things, and the remaining energy could be used for water heating. Woodworking is my hobby. I have a chainsaw license, saw, wood splitter, trailer, and relatively cheap wood is available.
3. My builder also suggested an alternative to the gas boiler: a fuel cell. I haven’t looked into this at all. Does anyone have experience with it?
I hope you can help me. Oh, and ground collectors are not an option due to insufficient space on the plot.
We are currently in the planning phase for our new home. We are building an urban villa of about 157 m² (1,690 sq ft) according to energy-saving regulations.
My favorite option until this morning was a heat pump with deep geothermal drilling plus a conventional fireplace. However, the drilling company declined the order today due to too high a risk. So I need a new heating alternative.
We are three people: man, woman, and toddler, possibly a fourth child. The child usually takes a bath daily, so there will likely be a relatively high hot water consumption. A rain shower would be desirable.
1. Air-to-water heat pump – somehow I just can’t get comfortable with this option. On one hand, it bothers me that the system is very sensitive to outside temperature, and on the other hand, I’m concerned about the appearance on the house and the noise.
2. Gas condensing boiler with solar hot water support and central ventilation with heat recovery. Since this requires a relatively large water storage tank, I thought of installing a water-bearing (water-carrying) fireplace. This would reduce the risk of overheating the living room, among other things, and the remaining energy could be used for water heating. Woodworking is my hobby. I have a chainsaw license, saw, wood splitter, trailer, and relatively cheap wood is available.
3. My builder also suggested an alternative to the gas boiler: a fuel cell. I haven’t looked into this at all. Does anyone have experience with it?
I hope you can help me. Oh, and ground collectors are not an option due to insufficient space on the plot.
M
Mastermind19 Apr 2018 21:47Especially with air source heat pumps, you always need to consider the minimum distance to neighboring properties. This is important even when there is "no space for a trench collector."
Air source heat pumps require careful planning (heating load calculation / pipe network design for underfloor heating), and this is where many projects fail.
The builder doesn’t care about that; they just sell one unit as requested – done. Planning was never part of the discussion (the builder doesn’t earn anything from that, since an engineering office handles it).
In my opinion, air source heat pumps are only suitable for people who study the topic thoroughly and then implement everything themselves. That means having a heating load calculation done, planning the underfloor heating system, and based on that, choosing a small Asian model (for example, a Panasonic Aquarea) plus securing government subsidies like BAFA support. But be careful—you must first find a qualified company to provide the official approval seal and to report the installation and completion to BAFA before ordering the Panasonic unit.
Otherwise, air source heat pumps are simply overpriced. A commercial air source heat pump from the builder with all the accessories can easily cost €10,000–15,000 (about $10,000–15,000). That is just too expensive...
The interested homeowner can get the Asian model for around €4,000–5,000 (about $4,000–5,000). From that, the BAFA subsidy of €1,500 (about $1,500) reduces the cost even further.
Air source heat pumps require careful planning (heating load calculation / pipe network design for underfloor heating), and this is where many projects fail.
The builder doesn’t care about that; they just sell one unit as requested – done. Planning was never part of the discussion (the builder doesn’t earn anything from that, since an engineering office handles it).
In my opinion, air source heat pumps are only suitable for people who study the topic thoroughly and then implement everything themselves. That means having a heating load calculation done, planning the underfloor heating system, and based on that, choosing a small Asian model (for example, a Panasonic Aquarea) plus securing government subsidies like BAFA support. But be careful—you must first find a qualified company to provide the official approval seal and to report the installation and completion to BAFA before ordering the Panasonic unit.
Otherwise, air source heat pumps are simply overpriced. A commercial air source heat pump from the builder with all the accessories can easily cost €10,000–15,000 (about $10,000–15,000). That is just too expensive...
The interested homeowner can get the Asian model for around €4,000–5,000 (about $4,000–5,000). From that, the BAFA subsidy of €1,500 (about $1,500) reduces the cost even further.
K
Knallkörper9 Apr 2018 22:00Gas condensing boiler without an integrated water circuit. In my opinion, this would be the most economical solution.
Good morning everyone,
First of all, thank you very much for your responses.
Regarding the setback distance from the neighbor, that’s not an issue. The neighbor is more than 50m (164 feet) away.
My plot of land is 913 sqm (9,823 sq ft) in size, but there will also be a large double garage added, and I need quite a bit of space for the infiltration area of the small wastewater treatment plant. Additionally, there is a water supply line running along one property boundary. I am required not to build anything within the 4m (13 feet) wide strip there. It wouldn’t be ideal if the line froze due to my withdrawal rate.
The gas network is definitely available. However, since I live in a secondary row and the line doesn’t run directly along my street, I definitely expect higher costs for the connection. The connection fee is €1400 plus almost €30 per meter for the trench. I’m estimating about 50m, which comes to nearly €1500.
The heating load has already been calculated. It should be around 7 kW, and an 8 kW heat pump from Vaillant is planned to be used.
First of all, thank you very much for your responses.
Regarding the setback distance from the neighbor, that’s not an issue. The neighbor is more than 50m (164 feet) away.
My plot of land is 913 sqm (9,823 sq ft) in size, but there will also be a large double garage added, and I need quite a bit of space for the infiltration area of the small wastewater treatment plant. Additionally, there is a water supply line running along one property boundary. I am required not to build anything within the 4m (13 feet) wide strip there. It wouldn’t be ideal if the line froze due to my withdrawal rate.
The gas network is definitely available. However, since I live in a secondary row and the line doesn’t run directly along my street, I definitely expect higher costs for the connection. The connection fee is €1400 plus almost €30 per meter for the trench. I’m estimating about 50m, which comes to nearly €1500.
The heating load has already been calculated. It should be around 7 kW, and an 8 kW heat pump from Vaillant is planned to be used.
M
Mastermind110 Apr 2018 07:20ares83 schrieb:
2. But leave out the solar thermal system, that should be possible if you have a controlled ventilation system with heat recovery.However, solar thermal systems are mandatory when using gas or oil heating. Omitting them is difficult – and only possible if replaced by alternatives such as a domestic hot water heat pump. Installing only an oil or gas heating system is not allowed without including a renewable energy component. Therefore, this requirement also applies to renovations of older buildings.Similar topics