Hello,
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
toxicmolotow schrieb:
If you have an architect, can’t they just pull one out of their contacts? For us, the drilling company came through their network. All other offers were similar or significantly more expensive. So why change a known company? Everyone knew each other, and the process went smoothly.We are doing the same. He knows all the aforementioned companies.
The heating engineer sees the brine heat pump and wants to offer the drilling service as well. He’s welcome to try, but he won’t get the contract for it.
Drillers have their pros and cons, just like any other industry. We need 110m (360 feet), some can’t drill beyond 100m (330 feet) and then propose 2x 65m (2x 213 feet). That’s naturally more expensive and less efficient. Others are price breakers, but then you don’t really know what you’re getting (basically one-line offers). We have now settled on the “quality leader” (one borehole, PE100-RC pipe, calculated brine concentration instead of just adding 30%, grout material with 2.4 W/mK).
The other bids, however, are useful as a basis for negotiation.
Regarding “a single point of contact”: I consider that unnecessary for brine drilling, since the interface between the driller and the heating engineer is clearly defined.
Besides, my “single point of contact” is the architect anyway — coordinating the trades is their responsibility.
Well, for example, we are not allowed to drill deeper than 100m (330 feet).
It’s a water protection zone and the authority has “clamped down.” So we are allowed 2 x 80m (260 feet). We also have to use the “expensive” materials because of the water protection zone IIIA (about €600 extra).
Regards
-Markus-
It’s a water protection zone and the authority has “clamped down.” So we are allowed 2 x 80m (260 feet). We also have to use the “expensive” materials because of the water protection zone IIIA (about €600 extra).
Regards
-Markus-
Mastermind1 schrieb:
I can’t imagine getting a borehole for €5,000.
We had two quotes ranging between €10,000 and €12,000 (for 12 kW extraction capacity) – but that was back in 2009.
That included everything: application/request at the water management authority, drilling samples, disposal of drilling sludge, pressure test, backfilling... Today, a new building has a heating demand of 5–6 kW. And even that is still an overestimate, since the heating load calculation models extremes and, for example, does not take solar gains into account.
For a 6 kW heating demand, you need about 4.6 kW extraction capacity...
They offered you nonsense, it’s as simple as that. You have to push people to actually calculate instead of just blindly offering something. Although the drillers are quite professional, they all checked the extraction capacity locally in the geo NRW maps instead of just making a rough estimate. But you can forget about the heating engineers, they all oversize the system (and consequently drill the probe too deep).
-Markus- schrieb:
Well, for example, we are not allowed to drill deeper than 100m (330 feet).
It's a water protection area, and the authority has closed access. So we are only allowed 2 x 80m (260 feet). Also, we have to use the "expensive" material because of water protection zone IIIA, which adds about €600 (euros) extra.
Regards,
MarkusThat's just how it is. Location matters. It was the same with Räuber, who also had a thread about it.
The drilling itself is not very expensive for me. The extra cost for the water protection materials alone is 600€ net. They also charge for the connection to the house, including the wall penetration (including a Doyma seal). I will have my groundworks contractor handle the excavation here.
Edit: It always depends on what is included (probe trench for house entry, the house entry itself, etc.). Additional protection for the probe might be necessary in my case. That will incur an extra cost from a depth of 13 meters (43 feet). We'll see.
Regards,
-Markus-
Edit: It always depends on what is included (probe trench for house entry, the house entry itself, etc.). Additional protection for the probe might be necessary in my case. That will incur an extra cost from a depth of 13 meters (43 feet). We'll see.
Regards,
-Markus-
Yes, that’s exactly what I mean—what’s included. The drilling alone isn’t enough; it also needs to be connected, which by itself can cost around 3,000 euros. Then you have drilling at nearly 10,000 euros gross, plus other things like the distribution chamber, and you’re back to the dreaded 15,000 euros.
Has anyone here received a quote from those who drilled so cheaply? I just can’t believe it, sorry.
Has anyone here received a quote from those who drilled so cheaply? I just can’t believe it, sorry.
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