ᐅ Older Building on Property – Bungalow Extension – Various Issues
Created on: 16 Mar 2018 00:47
F
Frau Meier
Hello,
a question now for the experienced ones, because I just can’t believe it – there is an existing building on a plot that allows for an infill development of up to 95 square meters (1,023 square feet). Unfortunately, the existing building is quite large and has window openings on the relevant side, right in the middle.
I would like to add a bungalow there (in accordance with the zoning plan and fire safety regulations), but I cannot figure out what the costs would be – and whether the whole thing is even feasible depends on that.
Now I hear that an architect could work within my budget.... The architect then asks a builder, who says he needs a plan to determine the costs. That means I’m supposed to hire the architect to draw up a plan and have to pay around 300 or rather 3,000 euros (realistic?) upfront.
The architect needs the eligible costs for invoicing – but what exactly can he base those on here if the costs will only become clear after his plan? So he cannot tell me how much his drawing will cost in advance?
Is it really like this – I enter into a contract with an architect to prepare a plan based on an estimated construction cost for his billing, but then it turns out it’s not feasible because the actual costs are too high –?
And on a side note, honestly, it just can’t be that in Bavaria, the construction prices for a completely plain, no-frills standard house with four walls, a few small rooms, and a roof are so ridiculously high that a normal person can no longer afford it... Could it be that construction companies are charging these outrageous prices because they are overbooked and simply CAN charge what they want…?
Where is this all going???
Desperately,
Frau Meier
a question now for the experienced ones, because I just can’t believe it – there is an existing building on a plot that allows for an infill development of up to 95 square meters (1,023 square feet). Unfortunately, the existing building is quite large and has window openings on the relevant side, right in the middle.
I would like to add a bungalow there (in accordance with the zoning plan and fire safety regulations), but I cannot figure out what the costs would be – and whether the whole thing is even feasible depends on that.
Now I hear that an architect could work within my budget.... The architect then asks a builder, who says he needs a plan to determine the costs. That means I’m supposed to hire the architect to draw up a plan and have to pay around 300 or rather 3,000 euros (realistic?) upfront.
The architect needs the eligible costs for invoicing – but what exactly can he base those on here if the costs will only become clear after his plan? So he cannot tell me how much his drawing will cost in advance?
Is it really like this – I enter into a contract with an architect to prepare a plan based on an estimated construction cost for his billing, but then it turns out it’s not feasible because the actual costs are too high –?
And on a side note, honestly, it just can’t be that in Bavaria, the construction prices for a completely plain, no-frills standard house with four walls, a few small rooms, and a roof are so ridiculously high that a normal person can no longer afford it... Could it be that construction companies are charging these outrageous prices because they are overbooked and simply CAN charge what they want…?
Where is this all going???
Desperately,
Frau Meier
F
Frau Meier16 Mar 2018 10:09A friendly architect made the drawing for me, but I only have the scanned sheet: The gray box number 5 represents the existing building, and the orange areas indicate possible independent new constructions, considering setback requirements and fire protection. In this regard, he also added pencil sketches for another alternative.
However, an independent 1 1/2-story new building is too expensive for me at the prices currently mentioned, so the idea is to attach a single-story extension directly to the existing building (see the darker areas on the plan).
The old building has two windows on the east side at ground level, which could be closed off if necessary. Upstairs, there is a balcony and a bedroom, so nothing can be closed there.
So, what do you tell the architect when his contracted builder demands "a plan" to calculate costs? The background is that I have had a bad experience. Last year, several turnkey builders took a look, and one was chosen. The idea was a small technical room as a connecting element, then a single-family house/semi-detached house as an extension. However, this builder said he could not produce drawings himself at the moment due to capacity limitations but would still need a plan to calculate precisely. He provided a rough construction offer of 80,000 euros and said turnkey would be roughly three times that amount (plus development costs). He recommended I approach a "good" interior architect he knew who could draw plans affordably; although not authorized for official submission, he (as a master craftsman) would sign the plans. If I built with him, the builder would credit me the planning costs; if not, I could use the plans to get offers from other companies.
So I did exactly that and received three designs from the interior architect, suddenly labeled as "submission plans" with an invoice for “submission plan creation.” I paid several thousand euros without complaint. The builder calculated costs, and the price suddenly rose to 350,000 euros without... without... without... He definitely knew this amount was unrealistic. I had asked the interior architect to adjust the plans and to have the submission plans signed by the builder/master so that after approval, I could hire a different general contractor, but neither occurred.
After months of unsuccessful search for a single new offer based on these plans—indeed, none of the contacted companies provided one—I consulted a “regular” planner regarding the issue of amending/signing the plans. He now says this approach won’t work either because the plan is not approval-worthy due to fire protection and setback regulations.
Now I am in a dispute with the interior architect and the builder, facing the same situation repeated with the statement from the (new, real) architect — whom I do not blame personally, but as the saying goes, stupidity does not protect against harm — that I need to pay a few thousand more just to find out it’s too expensive to implement.
Setting that aside, I simply cannot believe these prices are real—my mother built a house 15 years ago and would be horrified by the sums I am quoting her now.
Overall, it is pretty discouraging :-(
However, an independent 1 1/2-story new building is too expensive for me at the prices currently mentioned, so the idea is to attach a single-story extension directly to the existing building (see the darker areas on the plan).
The old building has two windows on the east side at ground level, which could be closed off if necessary. Upstairs, there is a balcony and a bedroom, so nothing can be closed there.
So, what do you tell the architect when his contracted builder demands "a plan" to calculate costs? The background is that I have had a bad experience. Last year, several turnkey builders took a look, and one was chosen. The idea was a small technical room as a connecting element, then a single-family house/semi-detached house as an extension. However, this builder said he could not produce drawings himself at the moment due to capacity limitations but would still need a plan to calculate precisely. He provided a rough construction offer of 80,000 euros and said turnkey would be roughly three times that amount (plus development costs). He recommended I approach a "good" interior architect he knew who could draw plans affordably; although not authorized for official submission, he (as a master craftsman) would sign the plans. If I built with him, the builder would credit me the planning costs; if not, I could use the plans to get offers from other companies.
So I did exactly that and received three designs from the interior architect, suddenly labeled as "submission plans" with an invoice for “submission plan creation.” I paid several thousand euros without complaint. The builder calculated costs, and the price suddenly rose to 350,000 euros without... without... without... He definitely knew this amount was unrealistic. I had asked the interior architect to adjust the plans and to have the submission plans signed by the builder/master so that after approval, I could hire a different general contractor, but neither occurred.
After months of unsuccessful search for a single new offer based on these plans—indeed, none of the contacted companies provided one—I consulted a “regular” planner regarding the issue of amending/signing the plans. He now says this approach won’t work either because the plan is not approval-worthy due to fire protection and setback regulations.
Now I am in a dispute with the interior architect and the builder, facing the same situation repeated with the statement from the (new, real) architect — whom I do not blame personally, but as the saying goes, stupidity does not protect against harm — that I need to pay a few thousand more just to find out it’s too expensive to implement.
Setting that aside, I simply cannot believe these prices are real—my mother built a house 15 years ago and would be horrified by the sums I am quoting her now.
Overall, it is pretty discouraging :-(
Unfortunately, when it comes to prices, you have to rely on what you read here. We are building for the second time (we built once 12 years ago) and were quite shocked by the new cost estimates. With our price expectations from 4 years ago, when we started looking into this again, we had to move a LONG way away from them!
F
Frau Meier16 Mar 2018 14:48And how is this supposed to continue? This can’t be right, or does everyone earn well except me???
C
chand198616 Mar 2018 15:28Frau Meier schrieb:
And how is this supposed to continue?
This can’t be right, or is everyone earning well except me???Prices have risen far above what was common just a few years ago due to the construction boom. The cost of building plots has increased accordingly.
If you look at the net incomes that couples currently building report as financing their projects, you’ll see that either a) good incomes or b) at least a lot of equity are involved. Others are strongly (and rightly) advised against proceeding, or to reduce their expectations.
In some areas of Germany, it’s more affordable. None of these are in Bavaria.
Frau Meier schrieb:
Apart from that, I just can’t believe these prices are real – my mother built 15 years ago and when I tell her these amounts, she just throws her hands up :-/Prices from 15 years ago have about as much in common with today’s as jam has with salad.
Plus stricter requirements for new buildings, ENEC, and all that stuff.
... unfortunately true!
chand1986 schrieb:
Prices from 15 years ago have as much in common with today’s prices as jam and salad.
... unfortunately true!
Similar topics