After having approached the topic the wrong way in the last thread, here is another attempt. First, our requirements:
Overall Requirements
The entire project must be completed within a budget of 280,000 euros. The finished product must be a move-in ready house including driveway, carport, lawn, and a hedge around the property.
Requirements for All Rooms
Every room must have a window.
Requirements for Children’s Rooms
The children’s rooms must be at least 10 m² (108 sq ft) in size.
The children’s rooms should preferably be square-shaped.
There must be three children’s rooms included.
Preferably, there should be four children’s rooms included.
Requirements for Kitchen, Dining, and Living Rooms
The kitchen must have at least one wall without a door measuring 230 cm (7 ft 7 in) and an adjacent wall without a door measuring 310 cm (10 ft 2 in).
The floor plan should include an open-plan kitchen-living area.
The kitchen and dining room can be in direct view of each other.
The living room should not be visible from the kitchen but should be visible from the dining room.
(An ideal solution would be an L-shape layout with the kitchen at one end and the living room at the other.)
Requirements for the (Master) Bedroom
The bedroom must be able to accommodate a wardrobe 200 cm (6 ft 7 in) wide and a bed 180 cm (6 ft) wide.
The bedroom may have space for a nightstand on each side of the bed.
Requirements for Bathrooms
There must be two bathrooms, both equipped with toilets.
One bathroom must include a bathtub.
Pantry / Storage Room
The home must provide at least 4 m² (43 sq ft) of storage space.
Utility Room
The utility room must have space for a washing machine and a dryer.
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size
Approximately 300 m² (0.07 acres)
Slope
No
Floor area ratio (FAR)
0.4
Gross floor area ratio
0.8
Building envelope, building line, and boundaries
Edge development
Number of parking spaces
Two
Roof shape
Architectural style
Orientation
15° roof direction
Maximum heights / limits
FH 11.5 m (37 ft 9 in); TH 6.5 m (21 ft 4 in)
Other specifications
Homeowner requirements
Building type
Solid construction house, bungalow
Basement, storeys
Only one ground floor level
Number of occupants, age
Two adults and one preschool child, with tendency to increase
Space requirements on ground and upper floors
Office: family use or home office?
Family use or not necessary
Number of overnight guests per year
About 40
Open or closed architecture
Conservative or modern building style
Open kitchen, kitchen island
Open-plan kitchen-living area
Number of dining seats
3+
Fireplace
Yes, mine
Music / stereo wall
No, but a 5+1 surround sound system with a 280 x 158 cm (110 x 62 in) screen should be planned.
Balcony, roof terrace
No
Garage, carport
Carport and bicycle shed
Utility garden, greenhouse
No
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, also with reasons
If possible, barrier-free design so the house can serve as a residence for old age
General House Design
Who designed it
Planner from a construction company
Personal price limit for house, including fittings
280,000 €
Preferred heating technology
Gas heating
Specific House Designs
Design number 1 - Park 140 W
What do you particularly like? Why?
Central living area where family life happens. Kitchen, dining, and living rooms are ideally arranged in an L-shape.
Windows in every room for good ventilation and natural light.
Five equally sized rooms that can be used flexibly.
What do you not like? Why?
Quite a few doors on the left side of the plan, making that area feel busy.
Estimated cost according to architect/planner
163,400 €
Which details / expansions can you do without?
Which details / expansions are absolutely necessary?
Why does the design look the way it does now?
Standard design from the planner
Specific House Designs
Design number 2 - Bungalow 123
What do you particularly like? Why?
Central living area where family life happens. Kitchen, dining, and living rooms are ideally arranged in an L-shape.
Windows in every room for good ventilation and daylight.
Guest toilet is easily accessible from the center.
Two showers.
What do you not like? Why?
The large bathroom is only accessible through the master bedroom.
Only three children’s rooms.
The children’s rooms vary in size.
Estimated cost according to architect/planner
xxx €
Which details / expansions can you do without?
The master bedroom is too large.
Which details / expansions are absolutely necessary?
Why does the design look the way it does now?
Standard design from the planner
Specific House Designs
Design number 3 - Bungalow 119
What do you particularly like? Why?
Central living area where family life happens. Kitchen, dining, and living rooms are ideally arranged in an L-shape.
Windows in every room for good ventilation and natural light.
Five equally sized rooms that can be used flexibly.
Guest toilet is easily accessible.
Two showers.
A terrace in the bottom right of the plan has abundant sunlight during the day.
What do you not like? Why?
The large bathroom is only accessible through the master bedroom.
Only three children’s rooms.
The children’s rooms vary in size.
Estimated cost according to architect/planner
xxx €
Which details / expansions can you do without?
The master bedroom is too large.
Which details / expansions are absolutely necessary?
Why does the design look the way it does now?
Standard design from the planner
Overall Requirements
The entire project must be completed within a budget of 280,000 euros. The finished product must be a move-in ready house including driveway, carport, lawn, and a hedge around the property.
Requirements for All Rooms
Every room must have a window.
Requirements for Children’s Rooms
The children’s rooms must be at least 10 m² (108 sq ft) in size.
The children’s rooms should preferably be square-shaped.
There must be three children’s rooms included.
Preferably, there should be four children’s rooms included.
Requirements for Kitchen, Dining, and Living Rooms
The kitchen must have at least one wall without a door measuring 230 cm (7 ft 7 in) and an adjacent wall without a door measuring 310 cm (10 ft 2 in).
The floor plan should include an open-plan kitchen-living area.
The kitchen and dining room can be in direct view of each other.
The living room should not be visible from the kitchen but should be visible from the dining room.
(An ideal solution would be an L-shape layout with the kitchen at one end and the living room at the other.)
Requirements for the (Master) Bedroom
The bedroom must be able to accommodate a wardrobe 200 cm (6 ft 7 in) wide and a bed 180 cm (6 ft) wide.
The bedroom may have space for a nightstand on each side of the bed.
Requirements for Bathrooms
There must be two bathrooms, both equipped with toilets.
One bathroom must include a bathtub.
Pantry / Storage Room
The home must provide at least 4 m² (43 sq ft) of storage space.
Utility Room
The utility room must have space for a washing machine and a dryer.
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size
Approximately 300 m² (0.07 acres)
Slope
No
Floor area ratio (FAR)
0.4
Gross floor area ratio
0.8
Building envelope, building line, and boundaries
Edge development
Number of parking spaces
Two
Roof shape
Architectural style
Orientation
15° roof direction
Maximum heights / limits
FH 11.5 m (37 ft 9 in); TH 6.5 m (21 ft 4 in)
Other specifications
Homeowner requirements
Building type
Solid construction house, bungalow
Basement, storeys
Only one ground floor level
Number of occupants, age
Two adults and one preschool child, with tendency to increase
Space requirements on ground and upper floors
Office: family use or home office?
Family use or not necessary
Number of overnight guests per year
About 40
Open or closed architecture
Conservative or modern building style
Open kitchen, kitchen island
Open-plan kitchen-living area
Number of dining seats
3+
Fireplace
Yes, mine
Music / stereo wall
No, but a 5+1 surround sound system with a 280 x 158 cm (110 x 62 in) screen should be planned.
Balcony, roof terrace
No
Garage, carport
Carport and bicycle shed
Utility garden, greenhouse
No
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, also with reasons
If possible, barrier-free design so the house can serve as a residence for old age
General House Design
Who designed it
Planner from a construction company
Personal price limit for house, including fittings
280,000 €
Preferred heating technology
Gas heating
Specific House Designs
Design number 1 - Park 140 W
What do you particularly like? Why?
Central living area where family life happens. Kitchen, dining, and living rooms are ideally arranged in an L-shape.
Windows in every room for good ventilation and natural light.
Five equally sized rooms that can be used flexibly.
What do you not like? Why?
Quite a few doors on the left side of the plan, making that area feel busy.
Estimated cost according to architect/planner
163,400 €
Which details / expansions can you do without?
Which details / expansions are absolutely necessary?
Why does the design look the way it does now?
Standard design from the planner
Specific House Designs
Design number 2 - Bungalow 123
What do you particularly like? Why?
Central living area where family life happens. Kitchen, dining, and living rooms are ideally arranged in an L-shape.
Windows in every room for good ventilation and daylight.
Guest toilet is easily accessible from the center.
Two showers.
What do you not like? Why?
The large bathroom is only accessible through the master bedroom.
Only three children’s rooms.
The children’s rooms vary in size.
Estimated cost according to architect/planner
xxx €
Which details / expansions can you do without?
The master bedroom is too large.
Which details / expansions are absolutely necessary?
Why does the design look the way it does now?
Standard design from the planner
Specific House Designs
Design number 3 - Bungalow 119
What do you particularly like? Why?
Central living area where family life happens. Kitchen, dining, and living rooms are ideally arranged in an L-shape.
Windows in every room for good ventilation and natural light.
Five equally sized rooms that can be used flexibly.
Guest toilet is easily accessible.
Two showers.
A terrace in the bottom right of the plan has abundant sunlight during the day.
What do you not like? Why?
The large bathroom is only accessible through the master bedroom.
Only three children’s rooms.
The children’s rooms vary in size.
Estimated cost according to architect/planner
xxx €
Which details / expansions can you do without?
The master bedroom is too large.
Which details / expansions are absolutely necessary?
Why does the design look the way it does now?
Standard design from the planner
ypg schrieb:
Do you also read other threads here in parallel? I have started doing that. I expect to have more time next weekend, so I can especially focus on the specified additional costs in other projects.
One thing I can promise you: you won’t know the final price until after the material selection and the meeting with the architect. We built with Heinz von Heiden. It’s a bit more expensive than Town & Country but generally in the same league. Even after removing all the nice-to-haves, we still ended up at least $10,000 higher. And the real stress came at the end when all the additional costs started coming in.
For example, wastewater. They only install one meter (3 feet) from the house. The rest is your responsibility. Installing wastewater pipes costs €1,000 (about $1,000), a wastewater pump with a shaft €7,000 (about $7,000), earthworks €1,000 (about $1,000). Have you included that in your budget? Water connection €3,000 (about $3,000), electrical connection €1,400 (about $1,400), internet connection €800 (about $800), MSE €700 (about $700), etc. These are our prices, but yours likely won’t be far off.
Has the soil report already been done? I’d guess not. We had earthworks costing €25,000 (about $25,000). If you’re unlucky, you’ll have similar costs.
I think you see the point ypg and I are trying to make.
For example, wastewater. They only install one meter (3 feet) from the house. The rest is your responsibility. Installing wastewater pipes costs €1,000 (about $1,000), a wastewater pump with a shaft €7,000 (about $7,000), earthworks €1,000 (about $1,000). Have you included that in your budget? Water connection €3,000 (about $3,000), electrical connection €1,400 (about $1,400), internet connection €800 (about $800), MSE €700 (about $700), etc. These are our prices, but yours likely won’t be far off.
Has the soil report already been done? I’d guess not. We had earthworks costing €25,000 (about $25,000). If you’re unlucky, you’ll have similar costs.
I think you see the point ypg and I are trying to make.
chbest schrieb:
I have started with that. Next weekend there should be more time available, so I can especially focus on the specified additional construction costs in other projects.It is not effective to start planning first and then gather information later.
Right now there is a thread where an extra 10,000 has to be paid because the ground is not stable.
Typing “additional construction costs” into the search bar at the top right and reading the first few posts won’t take any longer than writing something here.
Every day you will encounter technical terms related to construction here that will tell you this or that will cost money.
For example, take the thread about the electrical panel: have you already noted that as an item in your budget?
Someone had complained that sometimes "L" is used for living room, kitchen, and dining room, and sometimes a linear layout is shown. I forgot to explain the wording with my requirements.
"Must-have" requirements are those that have to be met. "Should-have" requirements are not mandatory, but it would be painful if they are not fulfilled. "Could-have" requirements are nice to have and are included if available at no extra cost.
So our current requirements are:
The room shown at the top of the floor plan in the Flair model is sufficient for living room, dining area, and kitchen combined in one space. However, it must not be smaller. In other words, the living, dining, and kitchen area must be at least 33 m² (355 sq ft).
There must be a guest toilet, and there must be a bathroom with both a bathtub and a shower.
There must be three children's bedrooms, each at least 10 m² (108 sq ft). The master bedroom must be able to accommodate a 1.80 m (71 inch) bed and a three-door wardrobe.
The longer I think about it, the more the Flair 124 or 113 floor plans seem suitable. In the 5-room version of the Flair 113, only the wall between the kitchen and dining area would need to be removed.
The rooms upstairs remain as they are. That allows us to stick with the Flair 124 and save about €9,000 (around $9,800). Or even €15,000 (around $16,300) if we go with the Flair 113.
Thanks for the note, I will include that in the discussion. The shape is not so important to me, but someone else prefers square rooms. I will prepare some example layouts to illustrate this.
Okay, I will gradually include all construction costs.
Cost Estimate V0.1
Flair 113
Item Cost Comment
Land €75,000 Actual prices range between €30,000 and €75,000
Flair 113 €153,030
Underfloor heating bathroom €2,000 Is this necessary in the guest toilet?
Window shutters ground floor / upper floor €5,120 Fully mechanical
Plastered walls painted €0 Included
Tiles, laminate €0 Included; does this also apply to the upper floor?
Electrical outlets €0 Standard is sufficient
Speaker cables / empty conduits €300 Rough estimate; does anyone have experience?
LAN sockets €0 Included in standard
Subtotal house €235,450
Notary €4,709 2%
Property transfer tax €11,773 5%
Construction supervisor (e.g., Private Builders Association) €0 How much does this cost, and are additional experts necessary?
Utility connection fees €6,000 Taken from another thread for now
Outdoor work €12,000 Carport, driveway, terrace, garden, and hedge
Built-in kitchen €7,000 Our current one cost that much, and we are very satisfied
Soil survey €0 Included with Town & Country. Need to check if it is sufficient for the city.
Fees €1,000 Taken from the construction cost thread—house number, drainage approval, building permit/planning permission
Surveying services €3,000 (Qualified site plans / elevation surveys / staking out / building survey; what does Town & Country cover?)
Temporary power €300 Setup of water and electrical connections on site
Soil removal and disposal €400 Container rental and disposal; depends on soil quality
Contingency €8,000 In case soil replacement is necessary
Subtotal additional costs €54,182
Total costs €289,632
Here again as a picture. If there is a better way to copy and paste from Excel, please let me know.
"Must-have" requirements are those that have to be met. "Should-have" requirements are not mandatory, but it would be painful if they are not fulfilled. "Could-have" requirements are nice to have and are included if available at no extra cost.
So our current requirements are:
The room shown at the top of the floor plan in the Flair model is sufficient for living room, dining area, and kitchen combined in one space. However, it must not be smaller. In other words, the living, dining, and kitchen area must be at least 33 m² (355 sq ft).
There must be a guest toilet, and there must be a bathroom with both a bathtub and a shower.
There must be three children's bedrooms, each at least 10 m² (108 sq ft). The master bedroom must be able to accommodate a 1.80 m (71 inch) bed and a three-door wardrobe.
The longer I think about it, the more the Flair 124 or 113 floor plans seem suitable. In the 5-room version of the Flair 113, only the wall between the kitchen and dining area would need to be removed.
The rooms upstairs remain as they are. That allows us to stick with the Flair 124 and save about €9,000 (around $9,800). Or even €15,000 (around $16,300) if we go with the Flair 113.
Evolith schrieb:
It has almost 12 m² (129 sq ft) and is quite elongated. I find that sufficient. The other children's room is squarer with almost 11 m² (118 sq ft). That one is much harder to furnish reasonably.
Thanks for the note, I will include that in the discussion. The shape is not so important to me, but someone else prefers square rooms. I will prepare some example layouts to illustrate this.
ypg schrieb:
Typing "additional construction costs" into the search box at the top right and reading the first posts takes less time than writing something here.
Okay, I will gradually include all construction costs.
Cost Estimate V0.1
Flair 113
Item Cost Comment
Land €75,000 Actual prices range between €30,000 and €75,000
Flair 113 €153,030
Underfloor heating bathroom €2,000 Is this necessary in the guest toilet?
Window shutters ground floor / upper floor €5,120 Fully mechanical
Plastered walls painted €0 Included
Tiles, laminate €0 Included; does this also apply to the upper floor?
Electrical outlets €0 Standard is sufficient
Speaker cables / empty conduits €300 Rough estimate; does anyone have experience?
LAN sockets €0 Included in standard
Subtotal house €235,450
Notary €4,709 2%
Property transfer tax €11,773 5%
Construction supervisor (e.g., Private Builders Association) €0 How much does this cost, and are additional experts necessary?
Utility connection fees €6,000 Taken from another thread for now
Outdoor work €12,000 Carport, driveway, terrace, garden, and hedge
Built-in kitchen €7,000 Our current one cost that much, and we are very satisfied
Soil survey €0 Included with Town & Country. Need to check if it is sufficient for the city.
Fees €1,000 Taken from the construction cost thread—house number, drainage approval, building permit/planning permission
Surveying services €3,000 (Qualified site plans / elevation surveys / staking out / building survey; what does Town & Country cover?)
Temporary power €300 Setup of water and electrical connections on site
Soil removal and disposal €400 Container rental and disposal; depends on soil quality
Contingency €8,000 In case soil replacement is necessary
Subtotal additional costs €54,182
Total costs €289,632
Here again as a picture. If there is a better way to copy and paste from Excel, please let me know.
Here is the floor plan of the ground floor in the Flair 113, quickly put together:
A nicer version will be provided soon. And yes, only one dining table is needed.
A brief explanation of why there is no L-shape, although it would be possible: I prioritized access to the pantry from the kitchen. In addition, this layout connects the guest room or spare children's room better to the upper floor. This is all still pending approval from my better half.
A nicer version will be provided soon. And yes, only one dining table is needed.
A brief explanation of why there is no L-shape, although it would be possible: I prioritized access to the pantry from the kitchen. In addition, this layout connects the guest room or spare children's room better to the upper floor. This is all still pending approval from my better half.
chbest schrieb:
Or to put it differently, the living, dining, and kitchen areas must be at least 33 m² (355 sq ft) in size. Interesting priorities – whether they are effective remains to be seen.
chbest schrieb:
The more I think about it, the more the Flair 124 or 113 floor plan fits. What exactly is the advantage, aside from some shifted walls, of simply copying an "XYZ 08/15" (or similar) design?
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