ᐅ Extension Planning / Modifications

Hi,

I can’t seem to find anything about this right now, but the grey area shows the current status, and the red is the planned extension? Is your living room and kitchen on the ground floor now?

We are still living in the old house as well, for the last five years with some compromises because my father unexpectedly showed up and moved back in — even though we had taken over the house from him two years earlier. So when it comes to compromises, well, we live with them ^^

I understand that you don’t want to take your parents’ separate living space away and that you try every possible compromise. It was no different here — just finished renovating and remodeling, then everything had to start over with a lot of improvisation. Not ideal, but manageable.

Even before that, it wasn’t possible here for everyone to sleep on one floor, and despite the small children at the time, it worked fine. Our older son was initially in the downstairs room, which connects to the living room, and later we moved into the parents’ bedroom. That always worked well with the baby monitor on.

I’m thinking especially because the current house is already quite large, maybe it’s worth reconsidering having some of your rooms still on the ground floor. There’s always some compromise to accept, and before starting a large extension that might still not be entirely satisfactory... I would do it.

For us, two years ago, the deadline was: what now? Either a full renovation plus an extension (our house is fully paid off) or — though heartbreaking — demolition and rebuilding a house that really fits.

A lot of coffee went down during family meetings here, but a solution was found. Maybe you as a family could sit down again and discuss whether there might be an alternative arrangement, especially since you still have a mortgage and additional debt might not be comfortable for your parents.

Best regards

Tina

kaho674 schrieb:
Why now?
I can’t just take ownership away from the parents because I need it right now. I find that unbelievable.

Hello kaho674,

you are misunderstanding the situation. This is not about taking something away; it is about realistically weighing the options. That these always result in compromises and are quite limited is a problem created by the situation itself.

The fact is that the parents have space available that the children and grandchildren actually need more urgently. That is clearly the current situation.

Furthermore, the current situation is that the original poster is committed to a house that does not meet the needs of many of its residents.

Various solutions are being considered to accommodate these needs. But in reality, all solutions are dismissed with the argument of the “sacred cow” of having the parents on the ground floor, leaving only the option of an extension.
For this option, you yourself already describe your own suggestions as “Not nice, but rare.” Do you see the contradiction?

So the only solution is a visually questionable compromise that will most likely ruin the resale value of the house because you never want to disturb the parents? But the children are supposed to inherit this unsellable building later?

No one should be moved without consent. But the idea of possibly rearranging floors through agreement among all parties involved seems obvious. Also, Nofret’s solution from post #10 would be a good compromise without swapping floors, but: parents on the ground floor, sleeping next door is not allowed — rejected. What else can be said?

Xorrhal schrieb:
And please, let’s not start a debate in a housebuilding forum about whether having three kids so close together makes sense or not

That’s far from my intention. I’ve just often seen how some parents casually group newborn younger siblings together with fifteen-year-olds, even though the older child is already in university by the time the younger one reaches puberty.

And in my opinion, you can’t really come up with such renovation plans without a certain tunnel vision – which is why I thought maybe there’s a forest hiding behind the trees here.

From a parent’s perspective, the logistics of children’s rooms understandably isn’t usually a top priority.

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chand1986 schrieb:
Hello kaho674,

you are misunderstanding this.

That’s possible. But I share the same view as the original poster. In our case, my parents worked incredibly hard their whole lives. We were able to study and lived at home for a long time at our mother’s expense.
The idea of taking my parents’ house away from them would never even cross my mind. Never. Absolutely not. I wouldn’t be able to face myself in the mirror. I would rather stay in the 80m² (860 sq ft) apartment.

I am responsible for my own children. If I can’t accommodate them, I can’t keep relying on my parents again. And now imagining this from the sister’s perspective—there is huge potential for conflict. No way.

Even though this is still not really the place for this discussion:

Every person, every family, every group, and every forum has opinions and different attitudes on certain topics.

Of course, financial aspects need to be considered when planning <YourProject>, whether it’s an extension, a renovation, a combination of both, or a new build. Naturally, the banks have to cooperate. And yes, I started a discussion here in the construction financing forum to find out what others think about my financial situation regarding this topic. I am still interested in that.

Of course, there are arguments for and against a new build, an extension, a renovation, or combinations of these options for everyone.

But people also have different principles and backgrounds that they don’t want to broadcast publicly, and everyone has their reasons for judging particular aspects the way they do.

I’d like to break it down a bit:

My parents fulfilled a lifelong dream with the house 30 years ago. With little money but a lot of courage, they bought, renovated, rebuilt, and extended it—mostly by doing it themselves. And by “a lot,” I don’t mean just a little interior finishing work. My father almost single-handedly built the extension with some colleagues. Over the years, he created the entire outdoor area with his own labor. He couldn’t afford a digger, so he moved tons of soil using a shovel and a wheelbarrow. He cut down 20 trees in the garden, chopped them up, and hauled them away. He tiled, wallpapered, and painted the entire interior himself. He built the garage on his own—and the conservatory (even though it’s not officially permitted).

When he retired, the money barely covered living expenses—no luxuries at all. I was 28 and had just finished my studies, which my parents had enabled me to do. Otherwise, I’d probably be talking about building a doghouse instead of a house today.

The apartment on the upper floor stood empty because my parents didn’t want tenants anymore after the last ones behaved terribly, and it took three years to get rid of them.

So, I moved into the upper apartment—but I didn’t want to pay rent; I wanted to invest in something of my own. Whether that was good or bad, for me, it felt like the better option at the time.

So I bought the apartment from my parents—for a bargain price of €30,000 (about $33,000)—and renovated it for another €50,000 (about $55,000). The purchase money was used to pay off remaining debts, and except for an extended vacation, almost all the money went back into the house, which no longer even belonged to my parents.

Two years later, the heating in the ground floor broke down. My parents barely had the money to fix it, so it was clear to me that I would help. But instead of just repairing the heating, I had a new system installed—including underfloor heating and new flooring in the extension—to make it more comfortable for my mother. I also had a wood stove installed as a temporary measure, for a cozy feeling and as a thank you.

That eventually led me to say that I would take the rest of the house into my name, cover insurance, taxes, and renovations. The purchase price was set at €60,000 (about $66,000). I paid my sister €20,000 (about $22,000) as compensation for her “lost” inheritance.

From the €60,000, a new car was also bought for me (which my father insisted on!). Apart from one extended vacation, the money... well, you can guess where it went—back into the house.

In the end, my parents handed over their life’s work to me for two vacations and a remaining debt settlement of €16,000 (about $18,000).

Maybe some of you can understand better now why I don’t want to say to them, “Hey, can you move upstairs? I need more space”—because I know they don’t want that. They love the garden, spend half the day outside or in the fully opened conservatory in this weather. They already have hip problems. They don’t feel comfortable thinking about living upstairs. Also, it would cost at least €30,000 (about $33,000) to create an accessible bathroom on the upper floor. Anyone who has seen the plan (yes, the old house looks dull) knows how tight the bathroom is. No one could get a wheelchair onto the toilet, no matter what is done—let alone into the shower. A balcony for my father’s only vice—smoking—would also cost a lot, as it’s not allowed on the sides and would be very complex on the existing extension. Luckily, he is sensible and smokes only outside! Has anyone ever entered a smoker’s apartment that is aired only once a week?

Financially speaking: €30,000+ (about $33,000) for the renovation upstairs. Changes on the ground floor, including a new bathroom (the old one is 30 years old and doesn’t meet our expectations), will cost at least €50,000 (about $55,000). Once I start, underfloor heating will also be installed on the ground floor in the old building, which is another €20,000 (about $22,000), as a new boiler and new flooring are needed.

That’s at least €100,000 (about $110,000) and sad parents. Economically, that might be the best solution. Emotionally, it’s not.

You present this as if “swapping” doesn’t cost anything. Wrong, it does cost money. Maybe less, or even less if I give up half of my wishes. But where did I say I want to spend less? On the contrary, I would spend more if I knew it would be exactly as I want.

I would prefer a new build with a granny flat, but I don’t think that will be feasible. Selling is another matter because of my parents’ emotional attachment to the house, but that could be managed.

So, a new build is probably out (although I’m still pursuing it, getting quotes, and have bank appointments).

I see all your points—they sound and are (almost) logical—but they also cut off more and more options. Just as my “emotional” aspects limit options, your “financial” aspects do the same.

Compromises are necessary. The extension is one of those compromises. It’s economically not optimal because it costs significantly more. It’s certainly not very attractive, but when I imagine how the planned extension could look later (as it currently stands from the initial post), I actually find the interior quite nice. From the outside, it’s definitely an eyesore and may look like a patchwork at first glance, but it serves its purpose and houses two families.

Maybe I’ll sell the place someday. Maybe my decisions today negatively affect the economic aspect—I’m aware of that. But should that aspect really outweigh the emotional bond to my parents and respect for their achievements?

Way too off-topic.

If anyone else has suggestions, just send them. Even if they’re only ideas to consider. I still see myself in this floor plan forum, and I have posted a floor plan for discussion. Please stick to that.

kaho674 schrieb:
It would never even occur to me, and I absolutely wouldn’t consider taking my parents’ house away from them.

That’s not supposed to happen either, with any of the suggestions made here!?

kaho674 schrieb:
I’d rather stay stuck in the 80m² (860 sq ft).

As a couple with only one child, you can easily do that. But with three?

kaho674 schrieb:
I am responsible for my children myself. If I can’t accommodate them, I can’t just rely on my parents again.

If you know you want three children: In that case, would you have your parents legally transfer the house to you if you receive a living unit that is not sufficient for your future family? And still invest 200,000 in renovations?

What will you do when your own responsibility for your children and what you absolutely don’t want to impose on your parents conflict, after you have done something like that?

The option to solve everything with an extension is possible, but unwise. Better solutions always involve changes to your parents’ ground floor – according to your logic, the worst solution should then be preferred.

I plead here for reason and open communication. Nobody’s house should be taken “out from under their feet”; a solution should be developed consensually within the family council.

The original poster does not have the luxury to stay stuck in 80m² (860 sq ft) just to be able to still look themselves in the mirror because of the parents. In that case, they couldn’t anyway, because of their spouse and children.