Hello everyone!
After reading here for a while, I’ve now decided to actively participate (with questions! Unfortunately, my knowledge isn’t enough to provide answers).
Who we are:
A brief introduction: we are a family of six facing a move due to work. It doesn’t need to happen immediately. Currently, my husband commutes and the pressure isn’t very high. In the medium term, however, we would like to relocate closer to his job.
We’re not firmly set on building a house, but after watching the market for some time, we’ve realized that we either have to rent a rundown place, spend an enormous amount of money, or hope for a lucky find. Unfortunately, the housing market is not designed for large families. Almost all listings are poorly laid out or too small. Sometimes suitable homes do appear, but often we’re simply too slow due to distance. The same goes for buying existing houses. Somehow, the market seems pretty depleted.
As a sort of Plan B, we’re now considering building and are starting to explore that slowly. We’re (still!) complete beginners and have little clue, so I’m hoping for answers to many basic questions here.
What we are looking for:
We don’t need luxury but want to plan thoughtfully (eventually the children will leave home), aiming for reasonable energy efficiency and, if possible, a clear, simple architectural style. Specifically, a house without unnecessary frills. Ideally designed as a house with “two separate living units.” Not only to potentially benefit from double government subsidies (such as the KFW building loan program / similar grant schemes, though as a layperson I don’t fully understand or know if those loans are really top priority—probably a topic to revisit later)—but also to avoid living in a house that’s too large once the kids have moved out.
We want to build affordably but not cheaply. That means carefully considering what is truly needed, keeping things simple and pared down, and (in many but not all areas) opting for relatively basic finishes. We currently live in a (very well planned!) house of about 140 sqm (1500 sq ft). In our opinion, more space isn’t necessary with good design.
How much will it cost?
I keep running into cost-per-square-meter figures related to building. It’s often stated that you can build for around €1100 (about $1200) per sqm (simple finishes), up to €2000 (about $2200) for higher-end finishes (with no clear upper limit). But I wonder: can you really build a decent house for €1500 (about $1650) per sqm? From browsing various prefab home catalogs, that seems too low to me. But I’m happy to be proven wrong.
Cost calculation:
We don’t want to rush into building just for the sake of it. Right now, we’re mainly considering whether we can afford to build at all. Here is a rough example calculation running through my mind for you to review. Please: where is the mistake? What have I overlooked?
House, 150 sqm (1600 sq ft) - €225,000 (about $247,000)
Plot, fully serviced (picked at random—some can be cheaper, some much more expensive) - €35,000 (about $38,000)
Additional construction costs (according to this forum) - €40,000 (about $44,000)
Garden - €10,000 (about $11,000) (probably underestimated, but this is an area where we can do a lot ourselves)
Contingency for unexpected costs / overruns / whatever - €10,000 (about $11,000)
Contingency for extras (e.g., a new kitchen or carport) - €10,000 (about $11,000)
———
Total: €320,000 (about $351,000)
Architect fees are not included yet. I have no idea what they might cost.
If I enter this into a mortgage calculator, it produces an offer (loan amount minus our equity) with a 15-year term at 2% effective annual interest rate for about €900 (about $980) per month.
Besides the KFW option, there is also the possibility of a loan from the Investment and Structural Bank RLP for €125,000 (about $137,000), also with a 15-year term at 2.0% or 10 years at 1.6%. Not really cheaper, but prepayments of 10% per year are allowed. This is interesting for us because a second income will come in a few years, which we won’t fully need for living expenses (currently one income suffices).
I find this incredibly affordable and wonder: what am I missing? Where’s the catch? If this calculation is even remotely realistic, building a house would be quite manageable.
If you factor in about €400 (about $440) per month for utilities and other running costs, we’d be paying about the same as we do in rent now. In a newly built home close to the job, daycare fees would be eliminated (saving about €250 (about $275) per month) and my husband’s commuting costs would roughly halve (saving another €250 (about $275)). So we would have about €500 (about $550) extra per month to save.
Currently, we live on one income. In no more than five years, a second income will be added. By the time the loan term ends, at least two, more likely three children will be out of the house, so the “granny flat” or second unit could be rented out.
More generally, I’m wondering how to approach this sensibly. How do I find someone who would build for the prices mentioned above (if it’s financially doable)? If we build, it will be securely financed. Of course, that probably means no more three vacations a year. But the children should still be able to continue horse riding or music lessons. How can I get an overview of this complicated market? Is there a good book on the subject? Or any other tips for our first steps?
Thank you very much already,
kauderwelsch (That’s exactly how building feels to me right now)
After reading here for a while, I’ve now decided to actively participate (with questions! Unfortunately, my knowledge isn’t enough to provide answers).
Who we are:
A brief introduction: we are a family of six facing a move due to work. It doesn’t need to happen immediately. Currently, my husband commutes and the pressure isn’t very high. In the medium term, however, we would like to relocate closer to his job.
We’re not firmly set on building a house, but after watching the market for some time, we’ve realized that we either have to rent a rundown place, spend an enormous amount of money, or hope for a lucky find. Unfortunately, the housing market is not designed for large families. Almost all listings are poorly laid out or too small. Sometimes suitable homes do appear, but often we’re simply too slow due to distance. The same goes for buying existing houses. Somehow, the market seems pretty depleted.
As a sort of Plan B, we’re now considering building and are starting to explore that slowly. We’re (still!) complete beginners and have little clue, so I’m hoping for answers to many basic questions here.
What we are looking for:
We don’t need luxury but want to plan thoughtfully (eventually the children will leave home), aiming for reasonable energy efficiency and, if possible, a clear, simple architectural style. Specifically, a house without unnecessary frills. Ideally designed as a house with “two separate living units.” Not only to potentially benefit from double government subsidies (such as the KFW building loan program / similar grant schemes, though as a layperson I don’t fully understand or know if those loans are really top priority—probably a topic to revisit later)—but also to avoid living in a house that’s too large once the kids have moved out.
We want to build affordably but not cheaply. That means carefully considering what is truly needed, keeping things simple and pared down, and (in many but not all areas) opting for relatively basic finishes. We currently live in a (very well planned!) house of about 140 sqm (1500 sq ft). In our opinion, more space isn’t necessary with good design.
How much will it cost?
I keep running into cost-per-square-meter figures related to building. It’s often stated that you can build for around €1100 (about $1200) per sqm (simple finishes), up to €2000 (about $2200) for higher-end finishes (with no clear upper limit). But I wonder: can you really build a decent house for €1500 (about $1650) per sqm? From browsing various prefab home catalogs, that seems too low to me. But I’m happy to be proven wrong.
Cost calculation:
We don’t want to rush into building just for the sake of it. Right now, we’re mainly considering whether we can afford to build at all. Here is a rough example calculation running through my mind for you to review. Please: where is the mistake? What have I overlooked?
House, 150 sqm (1600 sq ft) - €225,000 (about $247,000)
Plot, fully serviced (picked at random—some can be cheaper, some much more expensive) - €35,000 (about $38,000)
Additional construction costs (according to this forum) - €40,000 (about $44,000)
Garden - €10,000 (about $11,000) (probably underestimated, but this is an area where we can do a lot ourselves)
Contingency for unexpected costs / overruns / whatever - €10,000 (about $11,000)
Contingency for extras (e.g., a new kitchen or carport) - €10,000 (about $11,000)
———
Total: €320,000 (about $351,000)
Architect fees are not included yet. I have no idea what they might cost.
If I enter this into a mortgage calculator, it produces an offer (loan amount minus our equity) with a 15-year term at 2% effective annual interest rate for about €900 (about $980) per month.
Besides the KFW option, there is also the possibility of a loan from the Investment and Structural Bank RLP for €125,000 (about $137,000), also with a 15-year term at 2.0% or 10 years at 1.6%. Not really cheaper, but prepayments of 10% per year are allowed. This is interesting for us because a second income will come in a few years, which we won’t fully need for living expenses (currently one income suffices).
I find this incredibly affordable and wonder: what am I missing? Where’s the catch? If this calculation is even remotely realistic, building a house would be quite manageable.
If you factor in about €400 (about $440) per month for utilities and other running costs, we’d be paying about the same as we do in rent now. In a newly built home close to the job, daycare fees would be eliminated (saving about €250 (about $275) per month) and my husband’s commuting costs would roughly halve (saving another €250 (about $275)). So we would have about €500 (about $550) extra per month to save.
Currently, we live on one income. In no more than five years, a second income will be added. By the time the loan term ends, at least two, more likely three children will be out of the house, so the “granny flat” or second unit could be rented out.
More generally, I’m wondering how to approach this sensibly. How do I find someone who would build for the prices mentioned above (if it’s financially doable)? If we build, it will be securely financed. Of course, that probably means no more three vacations a year. But the children should still be able to continue horse riding or music lessons. How can I get an overview of this complicated market? Is there a good book on the subject? Or any other tips for our first steps?
Thank you very much already,
kauderwelsch (That’s exactly how building feels to me right now)
Marvinius II schrieb:
Nice children's bedrooms are 15m2 (160 sq ft), plus you need a children’s bathroom. Generous estimate: 70m2 (750 sq ft);
then living and dining rooms 60m2 (645 sq ft), kitchen 15m2 (160 sq ft) with pantry 5m2 (55 sq ft). That fills the 150m2 (1,615 sq ft) perfectly!
Now you still need a utility room (10m2 / 110 sq ft) and another storage room/guest room 10m2 (110 sq ft). Then add the hallways on the ground and upper floors, each at least 10m2 (110 sq ft). That brings me to at least 190m2 (2,045 sq ft). Maybe a study is needed too?
It’s nice if you can afford that.
However, if you’ve been following the posts here, even @kauderwelsch’s family has to calculate carefully and consider whether building a house is even affordable.
And that shouldn’t be the only reason to accept that children and parents can also be happy in a smaller space. So, there’s no shame in planning only around 12m2 (130 sq ft) per child and without a walk-in closet for the parents. Also, cooking, dining, and living areas don’t have to be over 60m2 (645 sq ft).
Yes, that would be nice, but it’s a bit unreasonable to come here with minimum dimensions that don’t meet the usual standards.
Marvinius II27 Jul 2017 22:11However, I also got the impression that Kauderwelsch is quite satisfied with the current living situation. So why build if there is no significant improvement in terms of square meters or floor plan, or even the plot?
C
Caspar202028 Jul 2017 08:57Evolith schrieb:
Nevertheless, it is always advisable to also consult your main bank. They may offer good terms as well. In our case, their conditions were poor. We were much better off with a mortgage broker.kauderwelsch schrieb:
We should clarify the terms offered by the main bank. But it seems like a very ethical institution. I assume there are cheaper options available.Even if you are loyal to your main bank and tend to avoid unfamiliar options, you should always get 2-3 comparative offers or seek several consultations.
Otherwise, you might not notice where one or another financing concept falls short.
In particular, at most banks the product or financing plans are clearly dictated by management (e.g., our local savings bank offers 10-15 years fixed interest; everything else is via building society savings contracts).
Banks and advisors differ not only in the loan interest rate but also in the process, as well as requirements like household budget calculations or equity "constraints."
So don’t get discouraged or think you have found the absolute bargain after the first conversation.
By the way, even if you don’t want an online bank or a bank without a local branch, the lender you prefer can often be influenced in the right direction regarding interest rates by presenting concrete figures.
Knallkörper schrieb:
The price does not include floor coveringsHowever, this does distort the price per square meter a bit, even with the garage included. In my opinion, such a price should always be calculated for a move-in ready house—and only as an initial reference.
As a reference for the original poster, here are our costs.
Land including purchase-related fees: €51,000
(651 m2 (7000 sq ft))
Move-in ready house: €2,025/m2
(Good quality finishes)
Additional construction costs: €13,500
Kitchen: €17,500
Outdoor area: €12,000
(Owner-contributed labor)
Miscellaneous: €10,000
Altogether, we are around €425,000
@kauderwelsch
You’ve already received good advice and tips. Only you can assess your finances.
Best regards