ᐅ Is it possible to determine the deductible costs with a rough estimate?
Created on: 28 Mar 2017 14:06
M
mertmk3
Hello everyone,
Now that the land is almost definitely secured and we have had initial talks with architects, one of them appeals to us quite well. Only one question remains unclear: How high will the fee be? According to the architect, he will provide a detailed fee breakdown before each work package. However, this doesn’t help me because I need to know the approximate costs BEFORE commissioning in order to properly calculate the overall project budget. After using the HOAI calculators, I arrived at a fee of 61,000€ for a total sum of roughly 400,000€ despite the minimum rate! If that is really the case, I will quickly reconsider the idea of building with an architect. I assume that the 400,000€ total cost does not include all billable items and that I am probably making a mistake in calculating the fee. The question is: How can I estimate an architect’s fee based only on an approximate total amount without a detailed breakdown of the individual construction costs, so I can include it in my overall budget?
Can I ask the architect for a fee offer in advance, specifying what the fee would be based on the corresponding total amount?
Thanks for your advice!
Best regards
Martin
Now that the land is almost definitely secured and we have had initial talks with architects, one of them appeals to us quite well. Only one question remains unclear: How high will the fee be? According to the architect, he will provide a detailed fee breakdown before each work package. However, this doesn’t help me because I need to know the approximate costs BEFORE commissioning in order to properly calculate the overall project budget. After using the HOAI calculators, I arrived at a fee of 61,000€ for a total sum of roughly 400,000€ despite the minimum rate! If that is really the case, I will quickly reconsider the idea of building with an architect. I assume that the 400,000€ total cost does not include all billable items and that I am probably making a mistake in calculating the fee. The question is: How can I estimate an architect’s fee based only on an approximate total amount without a detailed breakdown of the individual construction costs, so I can include it in my overall budget?
Can I ask the architect for a fee offer in advance, specifying what the fee would be based on the corresponding total amount?
Thanks for your advice!
Best regards
Martin
I can only share how I approach this professionally. The project involves demolishing an old, detached office building with three offices and a restroom. Then, adding a new extension of the same usable area to another existing building. The existing building needs upgrading, which means replacing old windows, installing new tiles, updating the electrical system because it’s still two-pole, and renewing the water pipes—all dating from around 1960. The budget is roughly half a million.
This kind of project practically requires working with an architect. The first preliminary meeting was with an office we had worked with before and had a good impression of. Their initial sketch and rough cost estimate didn’t fit. It was too complicated, too expensive, and they insisted on certain design standards. You get the feeling they aren’t the right fit for this project.
We reached out to some tradespeople asking for recommendations on architects in the area. One suggested someone in O. who is pragmatic and skilled in these kinds of projects. We had an initial meeting on site. He offered cost-effective ideas and wasn’t afraid of standard solutions. The sketch arrived soon after. After a quick discussion with colleagues, we decided to go with him. It feels right. We have now given him the go-ahead to prepare a realistic cost estimate. He already mentioned verbally that the budget should be feasible… we’ll see. My gut feeling says it will work.
In conclusion: you need to know what you want, and then you can tell if the architect is a good fit. You can also get a sense from their websites and titles. Those who present themselves as focusing on historic preservation are less suitable for a single-family house. Those calling themselves an urban planning office probably have more experience with larger projects. Architects specializing in commercial construction, like supermarkets, might also be able to handle affordable housing. And so on.
Karsten
This kind of project practically requires working with an architect. The first preliminary meeting was with an office we had worked with before and had a good impression of. Their initial sketch and rough cost estimate didn’t fit. It was too complicated, too expensive, and they insisted on certain design standards. You get the feeling they aren’t the right fit for this project.
We reached out to some tradespeople asking for recommendations on architects in the area. One suggested someone in O. who is pragmatic and skilled in these kinds of projects. We had an initial meeting on site. He offered cost-effective ideas and wasn’t afraid of standard solutions. The sketch arrived soon after. After a quick discussion with colleagues, we decided to go with him. It feels right. We have now given him the go-ahead to prepare a realistic cost estimate. He already mentioned verbally that the budget should be feasible… we’ll see. My gut feeling says it will work.
In conclusion: you need to know what you want, and then you can tell if the architect is a good fit. You can also get a sense from their websites and titles. Those who present themselves as focusing on historic preservation are less suitable for a single-family house. Those calling themselves an urban planning office probably have more experience with larger projects. Architects specializing in commercial construction, like supermarkets, might also be able to handle affordable housing. And so on.
Karsten
Hello Karsten,
thank you for your reply. So you receive a written cost estimate including the architect's fee before placing the order? That would also be my goal. I just don’t want to start working with an architect without any prior information. If it turns out in the end that they want 85,000 €… sorry, I’d rather manage the planning myself. That is even a gross annual salary at a large company in Stuttgart.
thank you for your reply. So you receive a written cost estimate including the architect's fee before placing the order? That would also be my goal. I just don’t want to start working with an architect without any prior information. If it turns out in the end that they want 85,000 €… sorry, I’d rather manage the planning myself. That is even a gross annual salary at a large company in Stuttgart.
Well, for the architect/engineer it would be half a year, since 50% goes to taxes, and because they support you for 2 years and should be available for you around the clock for the fee, it’s somewhat fair.
However, I wouldn’t want to pay that either... and they won’t want 85 anyway.
However, I wouldn’t want to pay that either... and they won’t want 85 anyway.
We will commission the architect once a) we understand what he intends to build and whether it aligns with our plans, and b) we know his cost estimate and whether we can afford it. If both are acceptable, we proceed to the details and finalize the contract with him. However, we will conclude the agreement based on HOAI. He should earn a fair fee, but first, it must be clear that we are a good fit for each other. The preliminary work he does is similar to what any contractor undertakes to secure a client.
That was also my assumption until now, but from the two architects I contacted, I have only received an initial consultation and no further efforts to acquire me as a client. However, it was made clear that they would be happy to continue working with us, although this will already incur initial costs. For me as a client, just one first meeting is too little acquisition effort in a competitive market.
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