ᐅ Air-to-Water Heat Pump: Icing Up, Noisy, Continuous Operation?
Created on: 29 Nov 2016 13:26
D
dertutnix
Hello,
I am new to this topic and have a few questions:
We are currently in the final phase of building our house and have received our heating system (still connected to construction power). The building is currently being "dried out."
Points that I am not satisfied with at the moment:
1. Unfortunately, the outdoor unit was installed on the house wall and not decoupled as discussed (the plan was to place it on the garage or in front/next to the house). What can still be done to fix this? As is often the case: nothing was documented in writing.
2. What I have noticed: the side vent of the outdoor unit is partially frozen at 8-13°C (46-55°F) or completely iced over at the moment, with temperatures of 6°C (43°F) or lower down to -5°C (23°F). I have not yet seen the defrost function "in action," but I am only on site for a few hours to talk to the contractors or ventilate. In the settings (which I have only briefly looked at), I only see "99% load" and the second heat source is "active" continuously. Is that normal? The room temperature is currently set to 24°C (75°F), and it is around that temperature as well.
3. I find the outdoor unit very loud and I am worried that this might cause issues with my neighbor. For example, I can feel vibrations throughout the house, I can hear the outdoor unit upstairs, and it is not very quiet outside either. The fan runs almost continuously at a high level, and the system rarely slows down. It is annoying.
The plumber has already come and adjusted something (I don’t know what exactly), and the manufacturer’s service has also been on site. So far, it has not helped much.
House information:
KFW55 city villa, 140 sqm (1,507 sq ft), detached, 24cm (9.5 inch) lightweight concrete with 18cm (7 inch) external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS), decentralized ventilation (Inventer), air-to-water heat pump (Weishaupt WWP L 7 AERS with 200-liter (53 gallons) domestic hot water tank), underfloor heating throughout, outdoor unit directly next to the utility room.
I hope you can provide some guidance, as I have been following this forum for a while.
I am new to this topic and have a few questions:
We are currently in the final phase of building our house and have received our heating system (still connected to construction power). The building is currently being "dried out."
Points that I am not satisfied with at the moment:
1. Unfortunately, the outdoor unit was installed on the house wall and not decoupled as discussed (the plan was to place it on the garage or in front/next to the house). What can still be done to fix this? As is often the case: nothing was documented in writing.
2. What I have noticed: the side vent of the outdoor unit is partially frozen at 8-13°C (46-55°F) or completely iced over at the moment, with temperatures of 6°C (43°F) or lower down to -5°C (23°F). I have not yet seen the defrost function "in action," but I am only on site for a few hours to talk to the contractors or ventilate. In the settings (which I have only briefly looked at), I only see "99% load" and the second heat source is "active" continuously. Is that normal? The room temperature is currently set to 24°C (75°F), and it is around that temperature as well.
3. I find the outdoor unit very loud and I am worried that this might cause issues with my neighbor. For example, I can feel vibrations throughout the house, I can hear the outdoor unit upstairs, and it is not very quiet outside either. The fan runs almost continuously at a high level, and the system rarely slows down. It is annoying.
The plumber has already come and adjusted something (I don’t know what exactly), and the manufacturer’s service has also been on site. So far, it has not helped much.
House information:
KFW55 city villa, 140 sqm (1,507 sq ft), detached, 24cm (9.5 inch) lightweight concrete with 18cm (7 inch) external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS), decentralized ventilation (Inventer), air-to-water heat pump (Weishaupt WWP L 7 AERS with 200-liter (53 gallons) domestic hot water tank), underfloor heating throughout, outdoor unit directly next to the utility room.
I hope you can provide some guidance, as I have been following this forum for a while.
Hello,
I have been reading along here. My question: What does the system planner say about the mentioned issues?
I would advise against working on the technical level unless you are very confident.
An acquaintance lost their warranty and guarantee because of this.
That is completely normal and typical for air source heat pumps at outside temperatures from -4°C (25°F) up to about +5°C (41°F). However, defrosting energy is lost energy that does not contribute to heating. Therefore, the air source heat pump should not be oversized and must be able to modulate.
Best regards
dertutnix schrieb:
....currently we need about 20-30 kW per day depending on the outside temperature (-5 to +10) ...
I have been reading along here. My question: What does the system planner say about the mentioned issues?
dertutnix schrieb:
....and I have more access to data ("installer mode") since I observed over their shoulder... I will now monitor it and google everything that means...
I would advise against working on the technical level unless you are very confident.
An acquaintance lost their warranty and guarantee because of this.
dertutnix schrieb:
...
the outdoor unit still has a frosting problem and the implementation is still ongoing... so it will remain interesting...
That is completely normal and typical for air source heat pumps at outside temperatures from -4°C (25°F) up to about +5°C (41°F). However, defrosting energy is lost energy that does not contribute to heating. Therefore, the air source heat pump should not be oversized and must be able to modulate.
Best regards
D
dertutnix31 Dec 2016 12:31The architect has become more critical by now, and the installer regularly checks everything... I currently don’t have any calculations or similar as a basis, if the architect... I’m not making adjustments to the system extras, I only check in regularly and take photos of the readings... The air source heat pump has 7 kW (9.4 hp) (Weishaupt), whether it is oversized or modulating? No idea.
Hello,
it certainly makes sense that the respective provider also assumes contractual liability for the expected operating costs.
How this is legally divided here is completely unclear!
Either the architect, see contract, or the system installer. Your problem!
Best regards.
it certainly makes sense that the respective provider also assumes contractual liability for the expected operating costs.
How this is legally divided here is completely unclear!
Either the architect, see contract, or the system installer. Your problem!
Best regards.
K
Knallkörper31 Dec 2016 15:45dertutnix schrieb:
The architect is now also critical, and the installer regularly checks everything... I currently have no calculations or similar as a basis, if the architect... I’m not messing with the system extras, I just check regularly and take photos of the values... the air source heat pump is 7kW (7 kW) (Weishaupt), whether oversized or modulating? No idea.Do you think that attitude will get you anywhere? You should have already asked for the design calculations a long time ago. What good does it do if the architect tells you he is "now also critical" and the installer regularly reviews things? That’s a joke. What you need are written requests for corrections or documented proof of proper planning and execution, with deadlines, and so on. What you don’t need is access to the installer level and self-documented measurements. That’s not your job! Or do you have too much time and money on your hands?
D
dertutnix30 Mar 2017 13:18Current Status:
So, the "project" has been completed, aside from minor details to be addressed in the coming weeks and months, everything seems to be working well.
The heating system is now decoupled and hidden above the garage (quiet and barely any vibrations felt inside the house). We have had hot water for a few days now (previously only warm). After the initial warm-up phase and balancing of the heating circuits, the consumption has settled at 4–10 kW per day at the current "moderate" temperatures; this is being recorded daily. Documentation is mostly complete (heat demand calculation, heating load calculation, various energy efficiency certification and energy saving regulation documentation, hydraulic balancing, blower door test, etc.).
The mechanical ventilation with heat recovery still needs some adjustment (control system defective, one heat recovery unit not working, zones being reconfigured), which will hopefully bring improvements.
For now, we can live with this and have moved into the new house!
The next winter will be the real test to see if the system performs as promised (icing issues, consumption).
I can provide updates here during winter or in the meantime if there is interest.
So, the "project" has been completed, aside from minor details to be addressed in the coming weeks and months, everything seems to be working well.
The heating system is now decoupled and hidden above the garage (quiet and barely any vibrations felt inside the house). We have had hot water for a few days now (previously only warm). After the initial warm-up phase and balancing of the heating circuits, the consumption has settled at 4–10 kW per day at the current "moderate" temperatures; this is being recorded daily. Documentation is mostly complete (heat demand calculation, heating load calculation, various energy efficiency certification and energy saving regulation documentation, hydraulic balancing, blower door test, etc.).
The mechanical ventilation with heat recovery still needs some adjustment (control system defective, one heat recovery unit not working, zones being reconfigured), which will hopefully bring improvements.
For now, we can live with this and have moved into the new house!
The next winter will be the real test to see if the system performs as promised (icing issues, consumption).
I can provide updates here during winter or in the meantime if there is interest.
dertutnix schrieb:
Current status:
So, the "project" has come to a close, apart from minor details over the next few weeks and months, everything seems to be working well.
The heating system now runs decoupled and hidden above the garage (quiet and with hardly any vibrations noticeable inside the house). We have had hot water for a few days now (previously only warm). After the initial warm-up, balancing of the heating circuits, etc., the consumption has stabilized at 4-10 kW per day during the current "moderate" temperatures. Consumption is recorded daily. The documentation is complete so far (heat demand calculation, heating load calculation, various KfW and energy-saving regulation certificates, hydraulic balancing, blower door test, etc.).
The controlled ventilation system still needs some fine-tuning (control unit defective, one heat recovery unit not working, zone settings are being adjusted). That will also improve the situation.
So far, we can live with it and have moved into the new house!
We are now looking ahead to the next winter to see if it delivers on its promises (freezing, consumption).
I’m happy to provide updates in winter or in the meantime if there is interest. Yes, please do update again.
Thanks and all the best going forward!!!
Similar topics