Hello,
In our new build, a fresh water pipe burst today, probably the supply line to the bathtub. As a result, water suddenly leaked through the ventilation openings on the floor below, from the sockets in the kitchen, and from the ceiling in the basement next to a downpipe.
Without going into the detailed plans: it is certain that the bathroom screed and insulation are completely wet. The bathtub is located at one end of the room, while the ventilation openings in the ceiling, through which the water then flowed downwards, are at two other ends of the room.
The question now is how do we _reliably_ determine how far the damage has spread?
The kitchen below also must have been affected. The sockets are next to a downpipe, and the water has run along it into the basement.
The corridor upstairs and an adjacent study might have been impacted as well. Is there any way other than removing the parquet flooring and breaking up the screed?
This will probably be quite unpleasant. Our site manager will likely try to downplay everything and suggested that we should contact our insurance… (he previously tried to pressure me into insurance fraud in a clear warranty case to avoid handling it himself) (I can share the company and the site manager’s name via private message).
Really great, another one of those incompetent plumbers has done a terrible job. This is now the third leaking pipe in the house. I can share the company’s name privately—be warned!
I could really be sick...
Best regards,
Andreas
In our new build, a fresh water pipe burst today, probably the supply line to the bathtub. As a result, water suddenly leaked through the ventilation openings on the floor below, from the sockets in the kitchen, and from the ceiling in the basement next to a downpipe.
Without going into the detailed plans: it is certain that the bathroom screed and insulation are completely wet. The bathtub is located at one end of the room, while the ventilation openings in the ceiling, through which the water then flowed downwards, are at two other ends of the room.
The question now is how do we _reliably_ determine how far the damage has spread?
The kitchen below also must have been affected. The sockets are next to a downpipe, and the water has run along it into the basement.
The corridor upstairs and an adjacent study might have been impacted as well. Is there any way other than removing the parquet flooring and breaking up the screed?
This will probably be quite unpleasant. Our site manager will likely try to downplay everything and suggested that we should contact our insurance… (he previously tried to pressure me into insurance fraud in a clear warranty case to avoid handling it himself) (I can share the company and the site manager’s name via private message).
Really great, another one of those incompetent plumbers has done a terrible job. This is now the third leaking pipe in the house. I can share the company’s name privately—be warned!
I could really be sick...
Best regards,
Andreas
F
fach1werk13 Mar 2017 12:41Thanks for the hint!
If he wants to, he will know exactly why. If he has to, it could be about time and damage prevention, probably a must.
Still, you wonder how to reliably determine how far it has progressed. Leak detectors and experts are definitely the right choice for that. Handling it yourself is absolutely the exception; I would also be cautious with that.
Best regards, Gabriele
If he wants to, he will know exactly why. If he has to, it could be about time and damage prevention, probably a must.
Still, you wonder how to reliably determine how far it has progressed. Leak detectors and experts are definitely the right choice for that. Handling it yourself is absolutely the exception; I would also be cautious with that.
Best regards, Gabriele
F
fach1werk13 Mar 2017 13:18Thanks for the hint! I didn’t phrase that well enough. This is not advice to handle the water damage yourself! Still, the term damage prevention does exist, after all, it could freeze again tonight.
As a starting question, I assumed the diagnosis was requested:
“The question now is, how can we reliably determine how far the damage has spread?”
For that, leak detectors and insurance experts are the right choice. I don’t think he intended to settle the claim himself.
Best regards, Gabriele
As a starting question, I assumed the diagnosis was requested:
“The question now is, how can we reliably determine how far the damage has spread?”
For that, leak detectors and insurance experts are the right choice. I don’t think he intended to settle the claim himself.
Best regards, Gabriele
Hello everyone,
First of all, thank you for the replies.
Of course, I don’t want to and won’t try to handle this myself. What would my insurance have to do with it anyway? The house was handed over to us three months ago, so if a burst pipe after three months is not considered a warranty case, I really don’t know anymore….
The general contractor and the plumber have already made this very clear, there’s no discussion about that.
The cause was an incorrectly installed safety clip on the bathtub inlet. We have a concealed bathtub fitting (which is still leaking after the third repair attempt, but that wasn’t the main issue). From there, a pipe runs to the tub inlet. This pipe connects to the tub inlet with a quick connector and is secured with a clearly visible bright yellow clip. Or it should have been secured, if the (insert any colorful insult of your choice here) wasn’t too stupid to push the clip on properly. Let’s not even start talking about intellectually demanding ideas like securing that clip further with tape — that would completely exceed these fools’ level of thinking.
Anyway, when the tub was filling yesterday, a large amount of water didn’t go into the tub but collected in the cavity underneath and from there found its way elsewhere. Definitely into the screed insulation and probably into the screed itself.
The insulation in the bathroom is completely soaked, so the water must have been sitting there. That also explains why water ran down the bathroom drain pipe all the way to the basement and why water came out of the ventilation openings in the ceiling of the ground floor. The affected openings, viewed from above, are in the bathroom.
There is probably also water in the hallway; initial moisture measurements have shown slightly damp walls there. This suggests that water has been escaping repeatedly for some time, because within a few hours the porous bricks generally don’t absorb water up to 25 cm (10 inches) above the unfinished floor.
This might also explain why our parquet flooring in the upstairs hallway and bedroom has creaked increasingly in recent times. I had blamed it on changes in temperature and humidity, which was apparently wrong…
After consulting my carpenter today, I removed the baseboards in the affected areas so that moisture vapor can escape from the gaps between the parquet and the wall instead of soaking into the wood. If the parquet edges start to lift over the next few days, then it’s clear that it will have to be replaced as well.
The drying technician was here earlier, but due to the 18 cm (7 inch) thickness of the screed, he was barely able to take any measurements. So for now, some drilling will be necessary.
We will have drying equipment in the house for many weeks and live with the uncertainty of whether it will ever fully dry or if mold and mildew will develop later on.
Just great…
Best regards,
Andreas
First of all, thank you for the replies.
Of course, I don’t want to and won’t try to handle this myself. What would my insurance have to do with it anyway? The house was handed over to us three months ago, so if a burst pipe after three months is not considered a warranty case, I really don’t know anymore….
The general contractor and the plumber have already made this very clear, there’s no discussion about that.
The cause was an incorrectly installed safety clip on the bathtub inlet. We have a concealed bathtub fitting (which is still leaking after the third repair attempt, but that wasn’t the main issue). From there, a pipe runs to the tub inlet. This pipe connects to the tub inlet with a quick connector and is secured with a clearly visible bright yellow clip. Or it should have been secured, if the (insert any colorful insult of your choice here) wasn’t too stupid to push the clip on properly. Let’s not even start talking about intellectually demanding ideas like securing that clip further with tape — that would completely exceed these fools’ level of thinking.
Anyway, when the tub was filling yesterday, a large amount of water didn’t go into the tub but collected in the cavity underneath and from there found its way elsewhere. Definitely into the screed insulation and probably into the screed itself.
The insulation in the bathroom is completely soaked, so the water must have been sitting there. That also explains why water ran down the bathroom drain pipe all the way to the basement and why water came out of the ventilation openings in the ceiling of the ground floor. The affected openings, viewed from above, are in the bathroom.
There is probably also water in the hallway; initial moisture measurements have shown slightly damp walls there. This suggests that water has been escaping repeatedly for some time, because within a few hours the porous bricks generally don’t absorb water up to 25 cm (10 inches) above the unfinished floor.
This might also explain why our parquet flooring in the upstairs hallway and bedroom has creaked increasingly in recent times. I had blamed it on changes in temperature and humidity, which was apparently wrong…
After consulting my carpenter today, I removed the baseboards in the affected areas so that moisture vapor can escape from the gaps between the parquet and the wall instead of soaking into the wood. If the parquet edges start to lift over the next few days, then it’s clear that it will have to be replaced as well.
The drying technician was here earlier, but due to the 18 cm (7 inch) thickness of the screed, he was barely able to take any measurements. So for now, some drilling will be necessary.
We will have drying equipment in the house for many weeks and live with the uncertainty of whether it will ever fully dry or if mold and mildew will develop later on.
Just great…
Best regards,
Andreas
Hello Andreas,
The water damage appears to be quite extensive, if I am assessing it correctly.
If you have not yet accepted the work from your contractor, you should carefully consider how to proceed.
The service providers who blow pre-warmed dryer air into the screed structure and use condensation dryers in the room to remove the moisture do not guarantee that the situation after drying will be the same as before the water damage occurred. In other words, these companies do not provide any warranty for a permanently dry floor system.
If you accept the building in this condition, any future risks along with all associated costs will be your responsibility.
Forced drying of a water-damaged screed always involves significant uncertainties because the concrete slab or floor below naturally can have major unevenness—and it will!
These irregularities cannot be detected "from above" once insulation and screed are already installed, but water usually collects in these depressions.
These areas are inaccessible and their exact location and level of moisture cannot be determined.
What can happen?
At some point, the drying process may be considered complete for various reasons, with general agreement from all parties.
The parquet or flooring installer will measure residual moisture using samples from the screed and will usually be satisfied.
However, months after installation (whether elastic coverings or parquet), the first signs of problems may appear. We are talking about "defects" here.
In some cases, reinstallation will be necessary, and all previous parties involved in the construction will initially look to each other, but ultimately at the approval you signed at the time.
There is no reason to be discouraged, and the same applies here.
A specialist in the field of "flooring technology" should definitely assess the situation on site and approve the next steps.
While they also cannot see through the screed, they can rely on other parameters—details that are often beyond the understanding of non-experts but which make their assessment easier!
---------------------------
Regards, KlaRa
The water damage appears to be quite extensive, if I am assessing it correctly.
If you have not yet accepted the work from your contractor, you should carefully consider how to proceed.
The service providers who blow pre-warmed dryer air into the screed structure and use condensation dryers in the room to remove the moisture do not guarantee that the situation after drying will be the same as before the water damage occurred. In other words, these companies do not provide any warranty for a permanently dry floor system.
If you accept the building in this condition, any future risks along with all associated costs will be your responsibility.
Forced drying of a water-damaged screed always involves significant uncertainties because the concrete slab or floor below naturally can have major unevenness—and it will!
These irregularities cannot be detected "from above" once insulation and screed are already installed, but water usually collects in these depressions.
These areas are inaccessible and their exact location and level of moisture cannot be determined.
What can happen?
At some point, the drying process may be considered complete for various reasons, with general agreement from all parties.
The parquet or flooring installer will measure residual moisture using samples from the screed and will usually be satisfied.
However, months after installation (whether elastic coverings or parquet), the first signs of problems may appear. We are talking about "defects" here.
In some cases, reinstallation will be necessary, and all previous parties involved in the construction will initially look to each other, but ultimately at the approval you signed at the time.
There is no reason to be discouraged, and the same applies here.
A specialist in the field of "flooring technology" should definitely assess the situation on site and approve the next steps.
While they also cannot see through the screed, they can rely on other parameters—details that are often beyond the understanding of non-experts but which make their assessment easier!
---------------------------
Regards, KlaRa
Hi,
@ all, the house has been accepted and we have been living in it for three months. There are still a few minor finishing works pending, but these are unrelated to the water pipe break (things on the exterior plaster that could not be completed in December due to frost).
We are therefore still within the general contractor’s warranty period.
@ Klara,
thank you for your response, even though the overall message is not very encouraging. It aligns with my assessment: basically, this means that the screed insulation drying is some kind of makeshift solution whose quality no one can guarantee or verify.
The “proper” solution would thus be: moving out of the house, removing the screed on the upper floor across a large area, and then starting over...
What a mess.
Regards,
Andreas
@ all, the house has been accepted and we have been living in it for three months. There are still a few minor finishing works pending, but these are unrelated to the water pipe break (things on the exterior plaster that could not be completed in December due to frost).
We are therefore still within the general contractor’s warranty period.
@ Klara,
thank you for your response, even though the overall message is not very encouraging. It aligns with my assessment: basically, this means that the screed insulation drying is some kind of makeshift solution whose quality no one can guarantee or verify.
The “proper” solution would thus be: moving out of the house, removing the screed on the upper floor across a large area, and then starting over...
What a mess.
Regards,
Andreas
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