ᐅ Is the offer for a semi-detached house with land/property acceptable?
Created on: 7 Oct 2010 17:51
M
Master1983M
Master19837 Oct 2010 17:51Hello everyone, I’m new here.
About us: My wife and I are 27 years old. Our monthly net income is between 3000 and 3200 euros. We have equity of 35,000 euros but only want to invest 30,000 euros into the house.
About the house offer:
It’s a semi-detached house, 124 sqm (1334 sq ft) on a 315 sqm (3391 sq ft) plot. The price per square meter is 122 euros, so the plot costs 38,000 euros and the house 131,000 euros.
About the house:
1. Earthworks
The topsoil in the building area will be excavated up to 30 cm (12 inches) deep and stored on the side of the plot.
2. Foundations
Strip foundations will be installed all around the building foundation 80 cm (31 inches) deep, below the frost line. The excavation material from the foundations will be properly disposed of.
3. Ground slab
The foundation is a shallow foundation with a reinforced concrete slab made of waterproof concrete C25/30. Below the slab is a moisture barrier and approximately 30 cm (12 inches) thick gravel layer.
3.1
A hot-dip galvanized foundation earth conductor will be installed according to valid VDE regulations during the foundation work.
4. Utilities and building drainage
Drainage pipes under the slab are laid with the required slope according to DIN standards.
4.1
Wastewater and rainwater pipes are installed as shown in the plans and connected to the main sewer.
4.2
Gas, water, electricity, and telecommunications connections are included in the fixed price.
5. Ground floor / upper floor
Exterior walls are 30 cm (12 inches) thick consisting of single-layer masonry, from outside to inside: 120 mm (5 inches) external thermal insulation composite system in white, back masonry 17.5 cm (7 inches) thick made of highly insulating clay blocks (Poroton plan blocks).
5.1
Interior walls are made of 17.5 cm (7 inches) and 11.5 cm (4.5 inches) thick clay blocks (Poroton plan blocks).
5.2
Party walls between the semi-detached units are soundproof and fire-resistant, made of two layers of 17.5 cm (7 inches) thick Poroton plan blocks.
5.3
The finished ceiling height on the ground floor is 2.54 m (8 ft 4 in).
5.4
Between ground and upper floor, a reinforced concrete ceiling is constructed from precast elements and cast in place with concrete C20/25. The ceiling underside is skimmed and ready for wallpapering.
5.5
The ceiling of the upper floor is made of spruce-fir timber beams, grade II quality. It is covered with gypsum plasterboard on battens. Moisture-resistant plasterboards are used in wet rooms. The ceiling is skimmed and ready for wallpapering.
5.6
The attic floor is covered with walkable USB boards. The attic ceiling is not covered. The attic can be converted with approximately 40 sqm (430 sq ft) of usable space.
5.7
Interior window sills are made of marble (natural stone) Micra Carrara. In bathroom and guest WC, tiled window sills are installed.
5.8
Exterior window sills are white aluminum.
6. Roof
The gable roof is constructed from grade II spruce-fir structural timber. The roof overhang is 50 cm (20 inches) all around. The underside of the eaves and gables is clad with white plastic profiles. The roof is covered with Creaton Futura black tiles.
7. Windows and doors
White PVC windows with steel reinforcement. Flush-mounted frames, installation depth 73 mm (3 inches), 5-chamber system, insulated glazing with U-value 1.1 including white PVC roller shutters with strap drive.
7.1
White aluminum front door with triple locking system, profile cylinder with 3 keys, Rodenberg light-colored PVC panels, brass spoon-handle lockset.
7.2
Interior doors are light beech with brass spoon-handle locksets. Door budget 160 euros per piece including VAT.
8. Heating
Gas boiler with hot water tank and solar system, brand product Vaillant or equivalent like Vaillant, weather-compensated heating control system. The heating system is installed in the utility room. Underfloor heating is installed in all ground and upper floor rooms.
9. Sanitary
Guest WC facilities: white porcelain hand basin approx. 50 cm (20 inches), chrome-plated quality single-lever mixer tap, white porcelain wall-hung WC with dual-flush push button system and flush stop function, white WC seat with lid.
Bathroom facilities: white porcelain hand basin approx. 60 cm (24 inches), chrome-plated quality single-lever mixer tap, white porcelain wall-hung WC with dual-flush push button system and flush stop function, white WC seat with lid, rectangular white acrylic bathtub with chrome single-lever mixer tap with spiral shower hose and shower head, barrier-free shower with chrome single-lever mixer tap with spiral shower hose and shower head.
9.1
Kitchen connections for sink and dishwasher are installed.
9.2
An outdoor water tap on the ground floor for garden irrigation.
10. Electrical installations
Complete electrical installation including meter cabinet performed according to VDE and local utility company regulations.
10.1
Electrical circuits protected by modern circuit breakers and RCD switches. For electrical system safety, potential equalization in connection with foundation earth conductor is installed.
Standard room equipment:
1 ceiling light point
1 light switch
5 power outlets
Entrance and terrace lighting:
1 outdoor light each, switchable from inside.
Attic:
1 power outlet
1 ceiling light point
11. Interior plaster
All masonry walls receive a single-layer machine-applied gypsum plaster. All protruding free corners are protected with corner beads.
12. Screed
The ground floor slab is fully sealed against rising damp.
Ground floor structure:
Waterproofing according to DIN 18195
10 cm (4 inches) EPS insulation, thermal conductivity 0.35 DEO
Membrane with edge insulation strip
6 cm (2.4 inches) flowing screed CA-C20 F4
Upper floor structure:
3.5 cm (1.4 inches) EPS insulation, thermal conductivity 0.35 DEO
Membrane with edge insulation strip
6 cm (2.4 inches) flowing screed CA-C20 F4
13. Staircase
Modern freestanding wooden staircase on bolts made of beech wood. Budget 2500 euros including VAT.
14. Tiles (budget 15 euros / sqm (5 USD / sq ft))
Tiles can be selected by the buyer at the corresponding tile specialist store. Any price differences will be credited or additionally charged.
14.1
Floor tiles are laid in the following rooms: WC, bathroom, kitchen, utility room, and hallway.
14.2
Bathroom and WC walls are tiled up to ceiling height, including window reveals and window sills.
15. Paving
The terrace of approx. 16 sqm (172 sq ft), access path, and parking spot are paved with rectangular cement-gray paving stones.
These were some details. What do you think?
The construction company manager said there will be additional costs as follows: 3.5% property transfer tax, 1.5% notary fees.
So:
169,000 euros for semi-detached house and plot
8,500 euros for property transfer tax and notary
5,000 euros for pre-built garage
10,000 euros for other costs (fence, some extra furniture)
192,500 euros minus 30,000 euros equity = 162,500 euros loan
We plan to borrow 170,000 euros for safety.
170,000 euros * 5 (4% interest + 1% repayment) / 100 / 12 = 710 euros monthly loan repayment.
What do you think?
About us: My wife and I are 27 years old. Our monthly net income is between 3000 and 3200 euros. We have equity of 35,000 euros but only want to invest 30,000 euros into the house.
About the house offer:
It’s a semi-detached house, 124 sqm (1334 sq ft) on a 315 sqm (3391 sq ft) plot. The price per square meter is 122 euros, so the plot costs 38,000 euros and the house 131,000 euros.
About the house:
1. Earthworks
The topsoil in the building area will be excavated up to 30 cm (12 inches) deep and stored on the side of the plot.
2. Foundations
Strip foundations will be installed all around the building foundation 80 cm (31 inches) deep, below the frost line. The excavation material from the foundations will be properly disposed of.
3. Ground slab
The foundation is a shallow foundation with a reinforced concrete slab made of waterproof concrete C25/30. Below the slab is a moisture barrier and approximately 30 cm (12 inches) thick gravel layer.
3.1
A hot-dip galvanized foundation earth conductor will be installed according to valid VDE regulations during the foundation work.
4. Utilities and building drainage
Drainage pipes under the slab are laid with the required slope according to DIN standards.
4.1
Wastewater and rainwater pipes are installed as shown in the plans and connected to the main sewer.
4.2
Gas, water, electricity, and telecommunications connections are included in the fixed price.
5. Ground floor / upper floor
Exterior walls are 30 cm (12 inches) thick consisting of single-layer masonry, from outside to inside: 120 mm (5 inches) external thermal insulation composite system in white, back masonry 17.5 cm (7 inches) thick made of highly insulating clay blocks (Poroton plan blocks).
5.1
Interior walls are made of 17.5 cm (7 inches) and 11.5 cm (4.5 inches) thick clay blocks (Poroton plan blocks).
5.2
Party walls between the semi-detached units are soundproof and fire-resistant, made of two layers of 17.5 cm (7 inches) thick Poroton plan blocks.
5.3
The finished ceiling height on the ground floor is 2.54 m (8 ft 4 in).
5.4
Between ground and upper floor, a reinforced concrete ceiling is constructed from precast elements and cast in place with concrete C20/25. The ceiling underside is skimmed and ready for wallpapering.
5.5
The ceiling of the upper floor is made of spruce-fir timber beams, grade II quality. It is covered with gypsum plasterboard on battens. Moisture-resistant plasterboards are used in wet rooms. The ceiling is skimmed and ready for wallpapering.
5.6
The attic floor is covered with walkable USB boards. The attic ceiling is not covered. The attic can be converted with approximately 40 sqm (430 sq ft) of usable space.
5.7
Interior window sills are made of marble (natural stone) Micra Carrara. In bathroom and guest WC, tiled window sills are installed.
5.8
Exterior window sills are white aluminum.
6. Roof
The gable roof is constructed from grade II spruce-fir structural timber. The roof overhang is 50 cm (20 inches) all around. The underside of the eaves and gables is clad with white plastic profiles. The roof is covered with Creaton Futura black tiles.
7. Windows and doors
White PVC windows with steel reinforcement. Flush-mounted frames, installation depth 73 mm (3 inches), 5-chamber system, insulated glazing with U-value 1.1 including white PVC roller shutters with strap drive.
7.1
White aluminum front door with triple locking system, profile cylinder with 3 keys, Rodenberg light-colored PVC panels, brass spoon-handle lockset.
7.2
Interior doors are light beech with brass spoon-handle locksets. Door budget 160 euros per piece including VAT.
8. Heating
Gas boiler with hot water tank and solar system, brand product Vaillant or equivalent like Vaillant, weather-compensated heating control system. The heating system is installed in the utility room. Underfloor heating is installed in all ground and upper floor rooms.
9. Sanitary
Guest WC facilities: white porcelain hand basin approx. 50 cm (20 inches), chrome-plated quality single-lever mixer tap, white porcelain wall-hung WC with dual-flush push button system and flush stop function, white WC seat with lid.
Bathroom facilities: white porcelain hand basin approx. 60 cm (24 inches), chrome-plated quality single-lever mixer tap, white porcelain wall-hung WC with dual-flush push button system and flush stop function, white WC seat with lid, rectangular white acrylic bathtub with chrome single-lever mixer tap with spiral shower hose and shower head, barrier-free shower with chrome single-lever mixer tap with spiral shower hose and shower head.
9.1
Kitchen connections for sink and dishwasher are installed.
9.2
An outdoor water tap on the ground floor for garden irrigation.
10. Electrical installations
Complete electrical installation including meter cabinet performed according to VDE and local utility company regulations.
10.1
Electrical circuits protected by modern circuit breakers and RCD switches. For electrical system safety, potential equalization in connection with foundation earth conductor is installed.
Standard room equipment:
1 ceiling light point
1 light switch
5 power outlets
Entrance and terrace lighting:
1 outdoor light each, switchable from inside.
Attic:
1 power outlet
1 ceiling light point
11. Interior plaster
All masonry walls receive a single-layer machine-applied gypsum plaster. All protruding free corners are protected with corner beads.
12. Screed
The ground floor slab is fully sealed against rising damp.
Ground floor structure:
Waterproofing according to DIN 18195
10 cm (4 inches) EPS insulation, thermal conductivity 0.35 DEO
Membrane with edge insulation strip
6 cm (2.4 inches) flowing screed CA-C20 F4
Upper floor structure:
3.5 cm (1.4 inches) EPS insulation, thermal conductivity 0.35 DEO
Membrane with edge insulation strip
6 cm (2.4 inches) flowing screed CA-C20 F4
13. Staircase
Modern freestanding wooden staircase on bolts made of beech wood. Budget 2500 euros including VAT.
14. Tiles (budget 15 euros / sqm (5 USD / sq ft))
Tiles can be selected by the buyer at the corresponding tile specialist store. Any price differences will be credited or additionally charged.
14.1
Floor tiles are laid in the following rooms: WC, bathroom, kitchen, utility room, and hallway.
14.2
Bathroom and WC walls are tiled up to ceiling height, including window reveals and window sills.
15. Paving
The terrace of approx. 16 sqm (172 sq ft), access path, and parking spot are paved with rectangular cement-gray paving stones.
These were some details. What do you think?
The construction company manager said there will be additional costs as follows: 3.5% property transfer tax, 1.5% notary fees.
So:
169,000 euros for semi-detached house and plot
8,500 euros for property transfer tax and notary
5,000 euros for pre-built garage
10,000 euros for other costs (fence, some extra furniture)
192,500 euros minus 30,000 euros equity = 162,500 euros loan
We plan to borrow 170,000 euros for safety.
170,000 euros * 5 (4% interest + 1% repayment) / 100 / 12 = 710 euros monthly loan repayment.
What do you think?
B
Bauexperte8 Oct 2010 13:08Hello,
Where is the hidden camera?
Kind regards
Master1983 schrieb:
...About the house offer: It is a semi-detached house of 124 m² (1,334 sq ft) on a 315 m² (3,391 sq ft) plot. The price per square meter is 122€ so 38,000€ for the land and 131,000€ for the house. About the house: ...4.2. Gas, water, electricity, and telecommunications connections are included in the fixed price...
Where is the hidden camera?
Kind regards
B
Bauexperte11 Oct 2010 10:24Hello,
this sounds very much like a budget builder’s tall tale…
A serious offer with comparable parameters would be approximately €38,000 for the land and €150,000 for the semi-detached house on a slab foundation as a KfW 70 efficiency house without painting and carpet.
I have removed the checklist items from the posted bill of quantities that seemed somewhat realistic for clarity, and focused only on some points that are completely unrealistic.
Realistic only with an additional charge.
Realistic only with an additional charge.
Depending on the location of the building relative to public connections, these costs realistically range between approximately €8,000 and €12,000. It is very unlikely that these costs are included in the fixed price, especially since, up to this point, the house price you mentioned should have already been reduced to around €115,000, which would bring it into the range of a shell construction if the offer were serious.
This would mean the staircase to the attic would also be included in the fixed price; that would add another approximately €3,000 to €4,500.
That means the cheapest hollow-core doors; I hope you don’t have small children at the age of riding cars.
This would add another approximately €3,000 to €5,000.
Nothing!
The initial sum I mentioned is realistic; based on that, the calculation is as follows:
Semi-detached house – €150,000
Land – €38,000
Prefabricated garage – €5,700
Additional building costs – €30,000
Total: €223,700
Minus equity – €30,000
Amount to finance: €193,700 plus contingency for extras.
If there were a semi-detached house built properly according to the current state of technology, valid DIN standards, and the current version of the Energy Saving Ordinance for the fixed price you mentioned here, my colleagues and I would immediately switch to that provider and look forward to a peaceful retirement, because we wouldn’t find time to spend the money from all the orders.
If you want a serious recommendation, keep your hands off this “offer” and continue discussions with other builders who are not as skilled in telling fairy tales.
Best regards
this sounds very much like a budget builder’s tall tale…
Master1983 schrieb:
It is a semi-detached house, 124 sqm (1,335 sq ft) on a 315 sqm (3,391 sq ft) plot. The price per sqm is €122, so €38,000 for the plot and €131,000 for the house.
A serious offer with comparable parameters would be approximately €38,000 for the land and €150,000 for the semi-detached house on a slab foundation as a KfW 70 efficiency house without painting and carpet.
I have removed the checklist items from the posted bill of quantities that seemed somewhat realistic for clarity, and focused only on some points that are completely unrealistic.
Master1983 schrieb:
Strip foundations are laid frost-free 80 cm (31 inches) deep all around the building footprint. Excavated soil from the foundations is professionally disposed of.
Realistic only with an additional charge.
Master1983 schrieb:
Wastewater and rainwater pipes are installed according to the drawings and connected to the sewer system.
Realistic only with an additional charge.
Master1983 schrieb:
Gas, water, electricity, and telecommunications connections are included in the fixed price.
Depending on the location of the building relative to public connections, these costs realistically range between approximately €8,000 and €12,000. It is very unlikely that these costs are included in the fixed price, especially since, up to this point, the house price you mentioned should have already been reduced to around €115,000, which would bring it into the range of a shell construction if the offer were serious.
Master1983 schrieb:
The attic receives walkable USB boards. The attic ceiling will not be covered. The attic can be converted. Conversion area approximately 40 sqm (430 sq ft).
This would mean the staircase to the attic would also be included in the fixed price; that would add another approximately €3,000 to €4,500.
Master1983 schrieb:
Interior doors are light beech, with brass spoon-shaped handles. Door budget €160 each including VAT.
That means the cheapest hollow-core doors; I hope you don’t have small children at the age of riding cars.
Master1983 schrieb:
The terrace (approximately 16 sqm (172 sq ft)), pathway, and car parking space will be paved with rectangular cement-gray paving stones.
This would add another approximately €3,000 to €5,000.
Master1983 schrieb:
Those were some details. What do you think? The construction company boss said we will also have to pay the following costs: 3.5% land transfer tax, 1.5% notary fees. So: €169,000 for the semi-detached house and land.
Master1983 schrieb:
€8,500 land transfer tax and notary, €5,000 prefabricated garage, €10,000 miscellaneous (fence, some additional furniture).
Nothing!
The initial sum I mentioned is realistic; based on that, the calculation is as follows:
Semi-detached house – €150,000
Land – €38,000
Prefabricated garage – €5,700
Additional building costs – €30,000
Total: €223,700
Minus equity – €30,000
Amount to finance: €193,700 plus contingency for extras.
If there were a semi-detached house built properly according to the current state of technology, valid DIN standards, and the current version of the Energy Saving Ordinance for the fixed price you mentioned here, my colleagues and I would immediately switch to that provider and look forward to a peaceful retirement, because we wouldn’t find time to spend the money from all the orders.
If you want a serious recommendation, keep your hands off this “offer” and continue discussions with other builders who are not as skilled in telling fairy tales.
Best regards
The 17.5cm (7-inch) thick masonry consists of highly insulating clay bricks (Poroton plan bricks).
Yes, yes... these are typical buzzwords used by scammers.
There is no such thing as a highly insulating 17.5cm (7-inch) masonry! This is a standard hollow clay brick (Poroton is just a brand/manufacturer, actually part of Wienerberger) used as a load-bearing exterior wall. The insulation comes solely from the polystyrene (PS) insulation (probably why it’s called "white," although it would be better to use Neopor) and not from the masonry itself.
The budget estimates for the surfaces or building components are also well below professional standards, as the building expert already suggested. You won’t get anything like that from specialized suppliers, which means considerable additional costs during final selections. This is exactly what these scammers—general contractors / developers—are aiming for.
Personally, I can only advise against this unless you know what you’re doing and have sufficient financial backup. Even then, it’s probably better not to consider such providers, as their bait offers are designed to lure clients away from the market, only to possibly exploit them shamelessly later on. Honest providers don’t stand a chance against this, which is ultimately very unfortunate and concerning!
Yes, yes... these are typical buzzwords used by scammers.
There is no such thing as a highly insulating 17.5cm (7-inch) masonry! This is a standard hollow clay brick (Poroton is just a brand/manufacturer, actually part of Wienerberger) used as a load-bearing exterior wall. The insulation comes solely from the polystyrene (PS) insulation (probably why it’s called "white," although it would be better to use Neopor) and not from the masonry itself.
The budget estimates for the surfaces or building components are also well below professional standards, as the building expert already suggested. You won’t get anything like that from specialized suppliers, which means considerable additional costs during final selections. This is exactly what these scammers—general contractors / developers—are aiming for.
Personally, I can only advise against this unless you know what you’re doing and have sufficient financial backup. Even then, it’s probably better not to consider such providers, as their bait offers are designed to lure clients away from the market, only to possibly exploit them shamelessly later on. Honest providers don’t stand a chance against this, which is ultimately very unfortunate and concerning!
M
Master198314 Oct 2010 10:33First of all, thanks for your comments. I’m not familiar with this at all. We have another meeting on October 20th where I’ll bring my father along since he has experience in construction.
Can you think of any important questions that should be asked in advance?
He has already built two of these duplex houses and sold them all. I spoke with two homeowners who were both very satisfied with his work and didn’t have to pay extra.
Well, I don’t know.
Can you think of any important questions that should be asked in advance?
He has already built two of these duplex houses and sold them all. I spoke with two homeowners who were both very satisfied with his work and didn’t have to pay extra.
Well, I don’t know.
The answers to your questions are clear.
Caution is advised here. Get a fixed-price offer. This fixed-price offer should include everything you have described. Additionally, it would be wise to hire a construction expert for the trade inspections. Considering the low price, this is a good investment. Do not make any payments without services being rendered.
I hope everything goes well.
Regards,
Claudius
Caution is advised here. Get a fixed-price offer. This fixed-price offer should include everything you have described. Additionally, it would be wise to hire a construction expert for the trade inspections. Considering the low price, this is a good investment. Do not make any payments without services being rendered.
I hope everything goes well.
Regards,
Claudius
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