We have a question regarding the Energy Saving Ordinance 2009 and solar energy. According to two of the potential builders, the current Energy Saving Ordinance 2009 can be met without solar panels, provided that the primary energy consumption is 15% below the requirements of the Energy Saving Ordinance 2009. This was also offered to us! What is your opinion on this? Is this just a cost-saving measure for the builder, or is it genuinely reasonable?
Thank you for your opinions
Klüsic
Thank you for your opinions
Klüsic
B
Bauherren201024 Apr 2010 10:10Games
Hello, these are games played by tradespeople who are always ready and usually have their annual contracts or are pressured on prices.
The seller makes money from you (commissions) 🙁. Price increases usually happen in January and at the end of the year, as that is when suppliers most often raise their prices.
Regards
Bauherren2010
Hello, these are games played by tradespeople who are always ready and usually have their annual contracts or are pressured on prices.
The seller makes money from you (commissions) 🙁. Price increases usually happen in January and at the end of the year, as that is when suppliers most often raise their prices.
Regards
Bauherren2010
Hello,
This statement can certainly be correct. Every general contractor (GC) has a discount scale with their house manufacturer, which depends on the respective sales volume and is adjusted from time to time. This is a basic rule. Since sales have significantly declined nationwide and will continue to do so !!!, this problem naturally exists. During an upward economic trend, the "big players" benefit from this arrangement. At the moment, however, they are facing much bigger problems because their business strategy is based on "mixed calculation" and high sales volumes rather than on individual "quantity and bulk measurement."
The question is whether the GC will achieve or can achieve their discount scale with the sales volume of your construction project. Due to the weakening economy, he might have to offer your project at a lower price in 6 months to remain competitive in the market, meaning he would have to reduce his own profit.
The decisive factor is the company’s equity ratio, not past references ;-)
You have answered that question yourself perfectly!!! Because time pressure always works to the advantage of the contractor.
Best regards
Kluesic schrieb:
At the last meeting, he said that prices would increase in about 4 weeks. However, these are not the list prices but the possible discounts that can be granted.
This statement can certainly be correct. Every general contractor (GC) has a discount scale with their house manufacturer, which depends on the respective sales volume and is adjusted from time to time. This is a basic rule. Since sales have significantly declined nationwide and will continue to do so !!!, this problem naturally exists. During an upward economic trend, the "big players" benefit from this arrangement. At the moment, however, they are facing much bigger problems because their business strategy is based on "mixed calculation" and high sales volumes rather than on individual "quantity and bulk measurement."
Kluesic schrieb:
These 4 weeks have now passed, and he has offered us a contract in which the old prices are fixed.
The question is whether the GC will achieve or can achieve their discount scale with the sales volume of your construction project. Due to the weakening economy, he might have to offer your project at a lower price in 6 months to remain competitive in the market, meaning he would have to reduce his own profit.
The decisive factor is the company’s equity ratio, not past references ;-)
Kluesic schrieb:
My wife and I are currently quite under time pressure, which is actually not a good adviser when building.
You have answered that question yourself perfectly!!! Because time pressure always works to the advantage of the contractor.
Best regards
haeuslebauer27 Apr 2010 11:59KfW85 without solar system
Hello €uro,
Initially, we planned to install a solar thermal system (not a photovoltaic system) because all the builders and general contractors informed us that the energy-saving ordinance requires it.
We have now received the building permit for a single-family house based on the KfW85 standard. The energy performance certificate has also already been provided to us.
After inquiries about which system is best, we were told that the annual savings would only be around €80 to €90.
This was confirmed to us by several sources more or less in the same range.
Our solar thermal system with a 300-liter (80-gallon) domestic hot water tank costs approximately €4,500.
This means the system would pay for itself in about 52 years. Well, assuming the lifespan lasts that long.
My question is:
Can I omit the solar thermal system and instead only prepare the installation for a future photovoltaic system?
Thank you very much in advance for your information.
Hello €uro,
Initially, we planned to install a solar thermal system (not a photovoltaic system) because all the builders and general contractors informed us that the energy-saving ordinance requires it.
We have now received the building permit for a single-family house based on the KfW85 standard. The energy performance certificate has also already been provided to us.
After inquiries about which system is best, we were told that the annual savings would only be around €80 to €90.
This was confirmed to us by several sources more or less in the same range.
Our solar thermal system with a 300-liter (80-gallon) domestic hot water tank costs approximately €4,500.
This means the system would pay for itself in about 52 years. Well, assuming the lifespan lasts that long.
My question is:
Can I omit the solar thermal system and instead only prepare the installation for a future photovoltaic system?
Thank you very much in advance for your information.
Hello,
That is not correct! This shows how objectively you were advised.
You mean the Energy Saving Regulation Certificate.
No — not without further ado, since the Energy Saving Regulation Certificate is part of your building permit / planning permission. Subsequent changes like this must be approved by the building authority. For that, an expert report according to §25 of the Energy Saving Regulation or §9 EEWG would be required.
If photovoltaic systems are planned, then install them immediately, because the window for these subsidies is already closing.
Regards
haeuslebauer schrieb:
...in advance, we planned to install a solar thermal system (not a photovoltaic system), because all the builders and general contractors told us that the energy saving regulation requires it.
That is not correct! This shows how objectively you were advised.
haeuslebauer schrieb:
... The Energy Performance Certificate has also already been provided to us.
You mean the Energy Saving Regulation Certificate.
haeuslebauer schrieb:Have you seen these calculations?
...
After inquiries about which system is best, we were told the savings would only be about 80 to 90 € per year.
haeuslebauer schrieb:Yes, such generalized statements are unfortunately common.
...approximately confirmed.
haeuslebauer schrieb:
...
Can I leave out the system and just plan only a provision for a future photovoltaic system?
No — not without further ado, since the Energy Saving Regulation Certificate is part of your building permit / planning permission. Subsequent changes like this must be approved by the building authority. For that, an expert report according to §25 of the Energy Saving Regulation or §9 EEWG would be required.
If photovoltaic systems are planned, then install them immediately, because the window for these subsidies is already closing.
Regards
haeuslebauer27 Apr 2010 19:24Experience
Hello €uro,
thank you for taking the time. Yes, I have been shown the calculations, but since I/we are complete beginners… well, you can imagine the rest!
What are your experiences with a solar thermal system for domestic hot water heating? A gas heating system with underfloor heating on the ground floor and upper floor is still planned. What kind of savings can be expected for approximately 160 m² (1,722 sq ft) of living space? When does the solar system typically pay off?
Thanks a lot.
Hello €uro,
thank you for taking the time. Yes, I have been shown the calculations, but since I/we are complete beginners… well, you can imagine the rest!
What are your experiences with a solar thermal system for domestic hot water heating? A gas heating system with underfloor heating on the ground floor and upper floor is still planned. What kind of savings can be expected for approximately 160 m² (1,722 sq ft) of living space? When does the solar system typically pay off?
Thanks a lot.
6
6Richtige27 Apr 2010 21:10Hello haeuslebauer,
a solar system used only for hot water rarely pays off. Roughly speaking, savings of 40% are advertised, but that applies to just 20% of your energy costs, since 80% goes to heating. So, if your annual energy costs are €1000, the solar system actually saves about 8% of that, which is €80 per year. This means the payback period is around 40 to 70 years depending on the installation costs. The lifespan of such a system is about 15 to 20 years.
If you also consider that the investment is usually financed by a loan rather than paid in cash, these costs will effectively double over 30 years, while at the same time you would need to save money to replace the system after 20 years.
If you finance the investment from your own capital and invest it at, for example, 4% interest, the returns would be higher than the savings, and so on.
a solar system used only for hot water rarely pays off. Roughly speaking, savings of 40% are advertised, but that applies to just 20% of your energy costs, since 80% goes to heating. So, if your annual energy costs are €1000, the solar system actually saves about 8% of that, which is €80 per year. This means the payback period is around 40 to 70 years depending on the installation costs. The lifespan of such a system is about 15 to 20 years.
If you also consider that the investment is usually financed by a loan rather than paid in cash, these costs will effectively double over 30 years, while at the same time you would need to save money to replace the system after 20 years.
If you finance the investment from your own capital and invest it at, for example, 4% interest, the returns would be higher than the savings, and so on.
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