ᐅ New construction window lintels on the ground floor installed too low
Created on: 10 Oct 2016 12:05
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Hausbau2k16
Dear forum members, I am new here and have a question for you. I am not looking for blame, but rather helpful advice if possible.
We are currently in the construction phase—a fixed-price contract for a turnkey single-family house—and our house is already standing. The windows are installed, the electrical work is completed, the external insulation and facade are in place, and the interior plaster on the third floor is also finished.
To note, we are total construction novices and have been following the instructions of the builder and the site manager. We have always contacted them when there were issues we wanted to raise. Some were addressed, others are still open, and some were just dismissed. Now, somehow, no one is smiling anymore...
Over the weekend, together with a professional friend, we took some measurements and, how should I put it politely, were somewhat confused. All window lintels (this concerns two windows on one gable and two windows, one on each side of the front door) on the ground floor are installed nearly 20cm (8 inches) too low. It seems the structural builder took the lintel measurement from the floor slab without considering the floor buildup (screed, underfloor heating, tiles). The construction company has been informed and an on-site inspection is planned. It is undisputed that the (major) defect exists. It is also clear to us that the house will not be “torn down” again. It seems equally clear that the builder must address this construction defect in some way. Since demolition and structural alterations (removing windows, raising lintels, redoing the exterior facade, replastering inside, etc.) are certainly not an option, our view is that only a financial compensation remains. We are aware that we can reduce the final invoice. The question is, how much do you estimate we can withhold or apply as a penalty charge? What does fixing such a construction fault typically cost, and what factor can we apply? We are not aiming to withhold the last dollar; a rough estimate with numbers would be very helpful.
I look forward to your comments and informed answers.
We are currently in the construction phase—a fixed-price contract for a turnkey single-family house—and our house is already standing. The windows are installed, the electrical work is completed, the external insulation and facade are in place, and the interior plaster on the third floor is also finished.
To note, we are total construction novices and have been following the instructions of the builder and the site manager. We have always contacted them when there were issues we wanted to raise. Some were addressed, others are still open, and some were just dismissed. Now, somehow, no one is smiling anymore...
Over the weekend, together with a professional friend, we took some measurements and, how should I put it politely, were somewhat confused. All window lintels (this concerns two windows on one gable and two windows, one on each side of the front door) on the ground floor are installed nearly 20cm (8 inches) too low. It seems the structural builder took the lintel measurement from the floor slab without considering the floor buildup (screed, underfloor heating, tiles). The construction company has been informed and an on-site inspection is planned. It is undisputed that the (major) defect exists. It is also clear to us that the house will not be “torn down” again. It seems equally clear that the builder must address this construction defect in some way. Since demolition and structural alterations (removing windows, raising lintels, redoing the exterior facade, replastering inside, etc.) are certainly not an option, our view is that only a financial compensation remains. We are aware that we can reduce the final invoice. The question is, how much do you estimate we can withhold or apply as a penalty charge? What does fixing such a construction fault typically cost, and what factor can we apply? We are not aiming to withhold the last dollar; a rough estimate with numbers would be very helpful.
I look forward to your comments and informed answers.
Hausbau2k16 schrieb:
Thank you. Staying objective and, above all, factual—at least trying to—is honestly quite difficult. Despite all rationality, emotions are naturally involved, which can hinder finding a reasonable solution.I also want to express my respect to you. At least few people would have behaved the way you did. I think it’s great that you didn’t post 100 pictures and plans online, because that doesn’t really matter—at least if fault is already established.
If you are satisfied with the solution, then the goal is achieved. I’m slowly getting tired of seeing the house as a status symbol.
Maybe it would also be possible to offer you material compensation or additional construction work. Background:
A bricklayer hired individually probably costs around €50/hour (about $55/hour). To the general contractor or shell builder, he only costs about €30/hour (about $33/hour). If, for example, you are planning to build a garden wall, it could be possible to set aside a budget equivalent to a certain number of hours. For example, €5000 damage (about $5500). That would be 100 hours of work on-site. The shell builder could offer you around 166 hours of work for that amount.
I hope I was able to clearly explain what I think. All figures are for illustration purposes only and are hypothetical. Whether you want this and whether the general contractor agrees is another matter entirely.
That’s exactly what I just wrote in edit mode, but after a few minutes, editing is no longer allowed. Really great ^^
Pictures are helpful to better identify and assess the issue. From the pictures, it actually still looks quite okay. Everything basically depends on the kitchen window. And of course, the size of the occupants. A 195cm (6 ft 5 in) tall man won’t be happy if he has to bend down to look outside...
Pictures are helpful to better identify and assess the issue. From the pictures, it actually still looks quite okay. Everything basically depends on the kitchen window. And of course, the size of the occupants. A 195cm (6 ft 5 in) tall man won’t be happy if he has to bend down to look outside...
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Bieber081511 Oct 2016 20:54BeHaElJa schrieb:
How tall are you, actually? For me, that’s the crucial point. A fairly tall person standing up looks directly into the window frame, and I find that terrible.
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Bauexperte11 Oct 2016 23:42Hello Andreas,
It’s a completely different story if the case goes to court; given the amount in question, it would be a regional court. These courts are severely overburdened, so it’s not uncommon for months to pass between hearings. If the case goes before a lower court, the situation gets worse, as the presiding judge often changes with each hearing. The piles of files grow – I doubt there is enough time to read through all correspondence – and the scheduler announces the next hearing. To somewhat relieve this pressure, settlements are very common. I wouldn’t be surprised if it is brought up again that the original poster, although having complained in writing once, silently observed the further work.
Furthermore, from my experience, it always depends on the attitude of the presiding judge. If there is no latest supreme court ruling as guidance, the judgment can be like sailing on open seas. The original poster receives a ruling, which does not necessarily mean justice.
Currently, a revision of the building code is underway, which will also cover contract law related to construction within the building code. It remains to be seen whether this will at least reduce the court backlog.
Regards, Bauexperte
andimann schrieb:I just read in #post 57! that the original poster informed his general contractor in writing about the issue. Also, that the general contractor refers the blame to his site manager; so this risk is not really present here.
I have learned by now that building regulations are often completely absurd, but in my opinion the general contractor/site manager is responsible for checking the measurements. Can the general contractor seriously try to shift this responsibility onto a LAYPERSON?
It’s a completely different story if the case goes to court; given the amount in question, it would be a regional court. These courts are severely overburdened, so it’s not uncommon for months to pass between hearings. If the case goes before a lower court, the situation gets worse, as the presiding judge often changes with each hearing. The piles of files grow – I doubt there is enough time to read through all correspondence – and the scheduler announces the next hearing. To somewhat relieve this pressure, settlements are very common. I wouldn’t be surprised if it is brought up again that the original poster, although having complained in writing once, silently observed the further work.
Furthermore, from my experience, it always depends on the attitude of the presiding judge. If there is no latest supreme court ruling as guidance, the judgment can be like sailing on open seas. The original poster receives a ruling, which does not necessarily mean justice.
Currently, a revision of the building code is underway, which will also cover contract law related to construction within the building code. It remains to be seen whether this will at least reduce the court backlog.
andimann schrieb:One would think so; however, reality these days often looks different, as a site manager is responsible for too many sites simultaneously.
If the client as a layperson should have noticed it, then the site manager as a professional should have noticed it even more, right?
Hausbau2k16 schrieb:I’m glad to hear that; one less worry.
The managing director of the construction company already ruled that out yesterday and made it clear in front of everyone involved: "There is a site manager who has to take care of such things."
Hausbau2k16 schrieb:Let your general contractor submit an offer first, then you’ll see.
That’s why my question is how high the expected delay penalty should be to get things moving.
Hausbau2k16 schrieb:As I wrote above, having the right and getting the right are two different things.
How financial compensation might look has already been established by courts several times. Of course, always based on the expected costs to remedy defects.
Hausbau2k16 schrieb:No, I can’t, since your general contractor in Saxony certainly estimates differently than I do in North Rhine-Westphalia. Use the court rulings you mentioned as a starting point; you already have an approximate total sum.
That’s why I’m asking about the amount, which only someone with expertise and experience in estimating such construction projects can answer.
Hausbau2k16 schrieb:Very subtle – I took the white lines as an intentional hint on your part.
Window surrounds are already in place .
Regards, Bauexperte
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Hausbau2k1612 Oct 2016 09:53nelly190 schrieb:
I also want to express my respect to you. At least you showed the behavior others should have demonstrated. I think it’s great that you didn’t post 100 pictures and plans online, because that doesn’t really matter—at least once fault has been established.
If you are satisfied with the solution, then the goal has been achieved. I’m getting tired of the house being seen as a status symbol.
Maybe it would also be possible to offer you material compensation, or rather in the form of an additional construction service. The background:
A bricklayer individually hired probably costs about €50/hour. For the general contractor (GC) or the shell contractor, they only pay around €30/hour. For example, if you plan to build a garden wall, it might be possible to allocate a budget equivalent to xxx hours. For example, if the damage amounts to €5,000, that would equal 100 hours externally. The shell contractor could provide you with about 166 hours for the same amount.
I hope I was able to explain my thoughts clearly. All numbers are for illustration only and are fictional. This could be another form of compensation. Whether you want this and whether the GC agrees is another matter.
Thanks for the suggestion, that is also worth considering.
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