ᐅ New construction window lintels on the ground floor installed too low
Created on: 10 Oct 2016 12:05
H
Hausbau2k16
Dear forum members, I am new here and have a question for you. I am not looking for blame, but rather helpful advice if possible.
We are currently in the construction phase—a fixed-price contract for a turnkey single-family house—and our house is already standing. The windows are installed, the electrical work is completed, the external insulation and facade are in place, and the interior plaster on the third floor is also finished.
To note, we are total construction novices and have been following the instructions of the builder and the site manager. We have always contacted them when there were issues we wanted to raise. Some were addressed, others are still open, and some were just dismissed. Now, somehow, no one is smiling anymore...
Over the weekend, together with a professional friend, we took some measurements and, how should I put it politely, were somewhat confused. All window lintels (this concerns two windows on one gable and two windows, one on each side of the front door) on the ground floor are installed nearly 20cm (8 inches) too low. It seems the structural builder took the lintel measurement from the floor slab without considering the floor buildup (screed, underfloor heating, tiles). The construction company has been informed and an on-site inspection is planned. It is undisputed that the (major) defect exists. It is also clear to us that the house will not be “torn down” again. It seems equally clear that the builder must address this construction defect in some way. Since demolition and structural alterations (removing windows, raising lintels, redoing the exterior facade, replastering inside, etc.) are certainly not an option, our view is that only a financial compensation remains. We are aware that we can reduce the final invoice. The question is, how much do you estimate we can withhold or apply as a penalty charge? What does fixing such a construction fault typically cost, and what factor can we apply? We are not aiming to withhold the last dollar; a rough estimate with numbers would be very helpful.
I look forward to your comments and informed answers.
We are currently in the construction phase—a fixed-price contract for a turnkey single-family house—and our house is already standing. The windows are installed, the electrical work is completed, the external insulation and facade are in place, and the interior plaster on the third floor is also finished.
To note, we are total construction novices and have been following the instructions of the builder and the site manager. We have always contacted them when there were issues we wanted to raise. Some were addressed, others are still open, and some were just dismissed. Now, somehow, no one is smiling anymore...
Over the weekend, together with a professional friend, we took some measurements and, how should I put it politely, were somewhat confused. All window lintels (this concerns two windows on one gable and two windows, one on each side of the front door) on the ground floor are installed nearly 20cm (8 inches) too low. It seems the structural builder took the lintel measurement from the floor slab without considering the floor buildup (screed, underfloor heating, tiles). The construction company has been informed and an on-site inspection is planned. It is undisputed that the (major) defect exists. It is also clear to us that the house will not be “torn down” again. It seems equally clear that the builder must address this construction defect in some way. Since demolition and structural alterations (removing windows, raising lintels, redoing the exterior facade, replastering inside, etc.) are certainly not an option, our view is that only a financial compensation remains. We are aware that we can reduce the final invoice. The question is, how much do you estimate we can withhold or apply as a penalty charge? What does fixing such a construction fault typically cost, and what factor can we apply? We are not aiming to withhold the last dollar; a rough estimate with numbers would be very helpful.
I look forward to your comments and informed answers.
H
Hausbau2k1611 Oct 2016 16:32andimann schrieb:
Hi Building Expert,
Without knowing the contract setup of the original poster, but:
I have learned by now that construction law is often completely absurd, however, in my opinion, the general contractor (GC) or site manager is responsible for verifying the measurements. Can the GC seriously find a way to shift responsibility onto a LAYPERSON?
The argument: "Even a blind person with a cane would see that, the client should have noticed it" is not acceptable to me.
If the client as a layperson should have noticed it, then the site manager as a professional should have noticed it even more, right?
I also don’t find it that obvious. Especially on the living room windows, you probably have to actually measure to notice it. It’s more noticeable on the windows next to the front door, but even that is not a perfect indication of an error. In our case, the front door is also taller than the kitchen window next to it. That’s due to the oversized front door.
If the GC makes a proper offer, it might just be a matter of a few cosmetic touch-ups.
Am I really supposed to turn half of the ground floor back into a shell again because of this?!?
Best regards,
AndreasHello Andreas,
That was exactly, and quite surprisingly to me, the argument made by the managing director yesterday. As a layperson, I am completely excluded since the site manager holds 100% responsibility. I disregard the "blind person with a cane" argument. As mentioned above, I was focused on other things and was able to intervene with helpful suggestions during the construction—at least as far as my lay understanding allows. If I could have done this work myself, I wouldn’t have had it built but done it myself.
Thanks for your summary; until the conversation yesterday, I thought my assessment was completely off.
Best regards.
Hausbau2k16 schrieb:
That’s why it didn’t catch our attention initially.Hausbau2k16 schrieb:
The site manager apparently didn’t notice it or didn’t take our concerns seriously.Hausbau2k16 schrieb:
He should have, but didn’t, or the site manager didn’t want to acknowledge the issue.Hausbau2k16 schrieb:
But we informed the site manager about our concerns regarding the windows in a timely manner.Hausbau2k16 schrieb:
Of course, one could argue that I should have been more assertive—I wasn’t and focused on other things. Be that as it may, it can’t be changed now.Hausbau2k16 schrieb:
A legal dispute is certainly not the goal. If you look through various rulings, the final figures tend to be quite different.No, just a zero or something like that.
Of course, the site manager is responsible for this! No doubt, no question!
And a defect has occurred (whether or not it is clearly visible).
I obviously have a different opinion here:
But you were aware of the mistake, and apparently, it was reported multiple times to the site manager by you. Unfortunately, you allowed the omission and lack of correction to continue, thereby indicating that you tolerated it.
If this ends up in court, in my view you will likely receive a relatively small amount, because your knowledge of the issue (and a lawyer or judge will assume that after noticing it, you also took measurements) will probably be considered partial fault.
So take what is offered and file the matter under “experience.”
Since you don’t want to assign blame anyway, I assume you are aware of your mistake.
Edit: to clarify again: I genuinely hope you get every thousand, and if the site manager takes full responsibility, that’s great!
But in court, things could look very different!
H
Hausbau2k1611 Oct 2016 16:58ypg schrieb:
No, just a zero or something similar.
Of course, the site manager is responsible! No doubt, no question about it!
And a defect has occurred (whether it’s obvious or not).
I obviously have a different opinion here:
But you were aware of the error, and apparently you informed the site manager about it several times. Unfortunately, you allowed the omission and lack of correction to continue, which can be interpreted as you tolerating it.
If it goes to court, in my view, you will come off with a relatively small amount, because your knowledge of it (and a lawyer or judge will assume that once you noticed it, you measured again) will very likely be considered partial liability.
So take what is offered and file the matter under experience.
Since you don’t want to assign blame anyway, I assume you know about your error.
Edit: to clarify again: I’m happy for you to get every thousand dollars, and if the site manager takes full responsibility, great!
But in court, things can look very different! Imagine mentioning something several times in a short period, once, twice. Meanwhile, the trades for exterior plaster and interior plaster are at work, and at the next site visit, you actually measure yourself and find the error that none of the professionals seemed to have noticed before... You surely know how quickly plastering work is done. We were not informed, for example, when the exterior plaster would be applied and were genuinely caught by surprise.
Regarding your edit: again, this is not primarily about financial compensation. I wanted to get an idea of the figures or understand what the cost of rework or reconstruction would be. If the general contractor says they will fix the defect and guarantees that no consequential damage, etc., will occur afterward, then they will proceed with the reconstruction. I’m very relaxed about it but certainly not the scapegoat.
PS: My refusal to assign blame is based on forum etiquette and because I am not naming any general contractor publicly here; I’m simply asking objectively for ideas, tips, and possible solutions.
ypg schrieb:
But you were aware of the error, and it seems you reported it multiple times to the site manager. Unfortunately, you allowed the inaction and lack of correction to continue, thereby implying that you ACCEPTED it.How much time must pass between defect reports for acceptance to be assumed?
The general contractor assumes the risks for the construction of the house. They appoint a site manager to supervise and are responsible for the work.
So now it’s fortunate for the general contractor because the client identified defects but did not intervene firmly enough?
Sorry, your argument seems completely absurd to me.
Alex85 schrieb:
Sorry, your statement seems completely absurd to me.It is absolutely not absurd.
An accountable citizen is also expected to act responsibly when dealing with higher authorities.
To keep it brief: after identifying a defect, a written and proper defect notification must be submitted within two weeks. Even a builder must follow rules and cannot be negligent – although forum members will naturally sympathize more with the original poster.
The higher authority must review all parties and does not take sides.
ypg schrieb:
and does not show any solidarity.Legal expert systems have not been invented yet. But one can hope.
ypg schrieb:
A responsible citizen is also expected to act responsibly by a higher authority.
I’ll keep it brief: after identifying a defect, a written and proper defect notification must be submitted within two weeks. Even a client must follow the rules and cannot be negligent – even if solidarity among forum members tends to lean more towards the original poster.The responsible citizen enters into a valid contract for work and services to transfer certain risks to a contractor in exchange for payment.
Perhaps someone can clarify the obligations arising from the contract for work and services for the client regarding the acceptance obligation and defect notification. That seems far more important to me than pondering about responsible citizens.
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