Hello everyone!
We are currently, after successfully purchasing a house (see other threads if interested), in the process of completely gutting the place (built in 1964) and are now slowly starting the rebuilding phase. We planned to make significant energy-related improvements anyway and are now likely to achieve KfW 70 standard (thanks to insulation, thermal bridge calculations, and heating technology).
So far, everything seems fine and shouldn’t pose a major problem. We would like to install underfloor heating throughout by routing it into the screed. According to the energy consultant, the system should then be at least a gas condensing boiler with solar thermal for hot water—and a central ventilation system. We took this information to local suppliers and had consultations. The preferred supplier advised us to go with a split heat pump to save on upfront costs and be independent from gas.
Now the offer finally arrived, and we were quite shocked. Here are the main points:
- Split heat pump with hot water storage tank and expansion vessel (Buderus Logaplus Package WPLS.2-3 11.2)
- Routing about 15 heating circuits into nearly 120 square meters (1300 square feet) of floor area
- Heating pipework installation
- Water supply, with hot water to run through a circulation line
Total gross cost: €27,500. What? About €14,500 for the heat pump, €8,000 for the routing work, and the rest for a bathroom radiator and water supply.
Alternatively, a gas condensing boiler with solar thermal (5 flat panel collectors) is supposed to cost €17,000.
In my view, this seems extremely expensive for what is planned. Could that be correct? Can anyone provide a qualified assessment? Or do we need to adjust our price expectations? The ventilation system isn’t even included yet...
Thanks for your feedback! :-)
We are currently, after successfully purchasing a house (see other threads if interested), in the process of completely gutting the place (built in 1964) and are now slowly starting the rebuilding phase. We planned to make significant energy-related improvements anyway and are now likely to achieve KfW 70 standard (thanks to insulation, thermal bridge calculations, and heating technology).
So far, everything seems fine and shouldn’t pose a major problem. We would like to install underfloor heating throughout by routing it into the screed. According to the energy consultant, the system should then be at least a gas condensing boiler with solar thermal for hot water—and a central ventilation system. We took this information to local suppliers and had consultations. The preferred supplier advised us to go with a split heat pump to save on upfront costs and be independent from gas.
Now the offer finally arrived, and we were quite shocked. Here are the main points:
- Split heat pump with hot water storage tank and expansion vessel (Buderus Logaplus Package WPLS.2-3 11.2)
- Routing about 15 heating circuits into nearly 120 square meters (1300 square feet) of floor area
- Heating pipework installation
- Water supply, with hot water to run through a circulation line
Total gross cost: €27,500. What? About €14,500 for the heat pump, €8,000 for the routing work, and the rest for a bathroom radiator and water supply.
Alternatively, a gas condensing boiler with solar thermal (5 flat panel collectors) is supposed to cost €17,000.
In my view, this seems extremely expensive for what is planned. Could that be correct? Can anyone provide a qualified assessment? Or do we need to adjust our price expectations? The ventilation system isn’t even included yet...
Thanks for your feedback! :-)
B
Bieber081514 Sep 2016 09:15mvossmail schrieb:
We would like to mill in underfloor heating pipes throughout the screed. Is this a common approach? How are the pipes then covered (is the screed patching included in the above offer)? Why not remove the old screed completely and install a new one instead? Would this be much more expensive than milling?
Removing the screed could be done as a DIY task … been there, done that.
If the insulation significantly contributes to achieving the target KfW70 standard (what exactly does that mean nowadays in 2016?), in my opinion, an air-to-water heat pump can also be considered. Surprisingly, the investment costs are about the same as for a gas condensing boiler.
M
mvossmail14 Sep 2016 09:18Insulation is necessary (and planned) anyway, so we are going with 16cm (6.3 inches) ETICS (external thermal insulation composite system) on the exterior walls. The basement ceiling will, of course, be insulated as well.
Actually, milling should be the ideal option. Milling takes about 2 working days in total; afterwards, we can install the heating circuits ourselves and then apply the filler.
Completely breaking out the screed is certainly possible but would likely be much more labor-intensive. At some point, this would probably exceed the limits of our own capacity, especially since we plan to do a lot of the electrical work ourselves soon.
Bieber0815 schrieb:
Is that the usual approach? How are the pipes then covered (is closing the screed included in the above offer)? Why not remove the old screed completely and then install a new one? Would that be much more expensive than milling?
Actually, milling should be the ideal option. Milling takes about 2 working days in total; afterwards, we can install the heating circuits ourselves and then apply the filler.
Completely breaking out the screed is certainly possible but would likely be much more labor-intensive. At some point, this would probably exceed the limits of our own capacity, especially since we plan to do a lot of the electrical work ourselves soon.
Sometimes I’m a bit baffled by how numbers are being handled here. And how they are just accepted without question.
Up there, the heat pump package is specifically priced at €14,500 (about $15,600). It only takes a quick search to find the “online price” for it, which is around €7,500 (about $8,100). And people just accept that without further consideration?
No wonder it’s claimed that houses cannot be built for less than 300k.
*micdrop*
Edit:
€8,000 (about $8,700) for milling that takes 2 days. Who even comes to do the milling to justify that amount of work? Or is the material made of gold?
Exactly right, and it’s important to question prices like these! Or not?
Up there, the heat pump package is specifically priced at €14,500 (about $15,600). It only takes a quick search to find the “online price” for it, which is around €7,500 (about $8,100). And people just accept that without further consideration?
No wonder it’s claimed that houses cannot be built for less than 300k.
*micdrop*
Edit:
€8,000 (about $8,700) for milling that takes 2 days. Who even comes to do the milling to justify that amount of work? Or is the material made of gold?
Exactly right, and it’s important to question prices like these! Or not?
B
Bauexperte14 Sep 2016 20:06mvossmail schrieb:
Actually, milling should be the ideal option. From my professional experience, I see it differently—I just witnessed this first-hand during our renovation. Removing the screed entirely is faster and more cost-effective than milling for the heating pipes 😉Regards, Bauexperte
B
Bauexperte14 Sep 2016 20:08Alex85 schrieb:
It specifically states above that the heat pump package is priced at 14,500€ (approximately $15,800). You only need a quick search to find the "online price," which is about 7,500€ (approximately $8,200). And are you just going to accept that difference?You are making assumptions about a web designer versus an IT specialist; not a good idea 😉Regards, Bauexperte
B
Bieber081514 Sep 2016 21:57Alex85 schrieb:
Absolutely right, and it’s important to question such prices! Or not? I completely agree with you! I look at it very practically: you can obtain three quotes and then compare them, awarding the contract to the best offer (how to identify the best offer is not the topic here). Any internet prices or comments in forums (too cheap, too expensive) are completely irrelevant; only the actually available option matters.
Similar topics