ᐅ Have the house designed by a general contractor or an architect?
Created on: 4 Apr 2016 19:25
A
AndreasPlü
Hello, a fundamental question that is probably asked often: What are the advantages of having a single-family house designed by an architect and built through to completion by them, compared to using a general contractor/building contractor?
Background: We unexpectedly received approval for a building plot quite quickly and, despite professional stress, feel somewhat pressured to act.
Thank you very much for your experiences and opinions.
Background: We unexpectedly received approval for a building plot quite quickly and, despite professional stress, feel somewhat pressured to act.
Thank you very much for your experiences and opinions.
P
Painkiller21 Jul 2016 12:24Our main issue with the general contractor (GC) quotes was really the comparability. One included higher additional costs, another included the window operator, while a different one had extra work for large tiles included as standard...
To ultimately compare two quotes, you have to carefully analyze the scope of work outlined by each GC and estimate what is important to you and where additional costs might arise with the cheaper GC...
The advantages of using a GC have already been discussed extensively. A colleague recently renovated with a reputable architect, and even they were surprised by the trade-specific quotes, as the offers exceeded the calculations by double—but simply because the companies were not really interested.
This situation naturally varies by region, but especially in the Swiss border area you can clearly see which clients the companies prefer to serve.
To ultimately compare two quotes, you have to carefully analyze the scope of work outlined by each GC and estimate what is important to you and where additional costs might arise with the cheaper GC...
The advantages of using a GC have already been discussed extensively. A colleague recently renovated with a reputable architect, and even they were surprised by the trade-specific quotes, as the offers exceeded the calculations by double—but simply because the companies were not really interested.
This situation naturally varies by region, but especially in the Swiss border area you can clearly see which clients the companies prefer to serve.
Hi,
The fear of exactly this situation was one of the reasons we decided to build with a GC.
In theory, it should be possible to build somewhat cheaper with an architect and self-managing contractors (also called owner-managed construction), although the architect’s services are not free either. For that, you have to be lucky enough to find tradespeople who still work for reasonable prices today and don’t just charge exorbitant rates. Or at least respond to your inquiries... in our area, it is currently impossible to even get a landscape gardener on the phone. No chance!
In normal times, I might have been willing to take on the challenge, but right now I consider it quite risky. If one trade lets you down, the entire construction can come to a halt for weeks!
Best regards,
Andreas
Painkiller schrieb:
The advantages of the general contractor (GC) have already been discussed extensively. A colleague recently renovated with a good architect, and even that architect was surprised by the bids from individual trades, as the offers exceeded the estimates by double, simply because the companies were not interested.
The fear of exactly this situation was one of the reasons we decided to build with a GC.
In theory, it should be possible to build somewhat cheaper with an architect and self-managing contractors (also called owner-managed construction), although the architect’s services are not free either. For that, you have to be lucky enough to find tradespeople who still work for reasonable prices today and don’t just charge exorbitant rates. Or at least respond to your inquiries... in our area, it is currently impossible to even get a landscape gardener on the phone. No chance!
In normal times, I might have been willing to take on the challenge, but right now I consider it quite risky. If one trade lets you down, the entire construction can come to a halt for weeks!
Best regards,
Andreas
With both options, you can build and end up with a finished house. Which one might be better (definition) will probably never be known.
We are building based on a recommendation with an architect who has experience and references in multi-family housing construction.
I find this exciting. I also have a bit more time now. At the moment, I am dealing with lifting stations; the order is expected to be placed by the end of the week.
I like having this scope to act while staying informed and involved in the process. Of course, our architect has reliable companies at hand, but the final price negotiations and decisions are up to us.
We are building based on a recommendation with an architect who has experience and references in multi-family housing construction.
I find this exciting. I also have a bit more time now. At the moment, I am dealing with lifting stations; the order is expected to be placed by the end of the week.
I like having this scope to act while staying informed and involved in the process. Of course, our architect has reliable companies at hand, but the final price negotiations and decisions are up to us.
Hi,
I find this interesting as well:
I’ve also spent a lot of time on the technical aspects, construction methods, and technical backgrounds of our build. It’s probably just a professional habit that these topics interest me and I’m able to quickly familiarize myself with new subjects. I’ve surprised my counterparts a few times with that.
However, going much deeper wasn’t possible for me; the house build, even with a general contractor (GC), already pushed my time limits. Plus, we had a small child and got married during that period. There’s always a limit! You still want to have a life, after all…
If I had taken on self-contracting, I would have had to cut back on work. For me, it didn’t make sense to reduce my job hours by at least 6–12 months, losing 25% of my salary just to save a one-time 2,000 € on the electrician through self-contracting. Although, considering the additional invoices coming from electrical, plumbing, and tiling work, I’m starting to get a bit nervous…
In other words, self-contracting along with the responsibility and ability to influence decisions is great, but you simply need to have the time for it.
And that will always depend heavily on one’s personal life and work situation.
That’s why we chose a GC. So far, we’re very satisfied with that decision!
Best regards,
Andreas
I find this interesting as well:
MarcWen schrieb:
I find this fascinating. I also have a bit more time now. Currently, I’m dealing with lifting stations, and the order should be placed by the end of the week.
I like having this room to act, always being informed and involved. Of course, our architect has reliable companies on hand. But the final price negotiations and decisions are up to us.
I’ve also spent a lot of time on the technical aspects, construction methods, and technical backgrounds of our build. It’s probably just a professional habit that these topics interest me and I’m able to quickly familiarize myself with new subjects. I’ve surprised my counterparts a few times with that.
However, going much deeper wasn’t possible for me; the house build, even with a general contractor (GC), already pushed my time limits. Plus, we had a small child and got married during that period. There’s always a limit! You still want to have a life, after all…
If I had taken on self-contracting, I would have had to cut back on work. For me, it didn’t make sense to reduce my job hours by at least 6–12 months, losing 25% of my salary just to save a one-time 2,000 € on the electrician through self-contracting. Although, considering the additional invoices coming from electrical, plumbing, and tiling work, I’m starting to get a bit nervous…
In other words, self-contracting along with the responsibility and ability to influence decisions is great, but you simply need to have the time for it.
And that will always depend heavily on one’s personal life and work situation.
That’s why we chose a GC. So far, we’re very satisfied with that decision!
Best regards,
Andreas
Well, the question is actually not so easy to answer. We faced the same choice and consulted with 6 architects and about 15 general contractors (GCs). There was everything from prefab house GCs to solid construction, from local providers to large companies. Also, the full range of architects—from passive house specialists to local, down-to-earth ones. Although I have to say: there are hardly any genuinely down-to-earth architects. It’s very difficult to find someone who doesn’t just want to do their own thing but also keeps the client’s budget in mind. One only wanted to build KfW40 standard houses, another insisted on timber frame construction, a third told us to see if we could find 100,000 euros under grandma’s mattress... and so on.
Of course, the GCs also varied a lot... from a chain-smoking representative from a large prefab company to the managing director of a local GC, to conversations like “oh, you’re young and want to build something unique... we don’t want that... young people just compare things online, we prefer to build with seniors who accept any price.” Honestly, we encountered everything!
In the end, after a long and intensive search, we decided on a well-known local GC. We asked them for a list of addresses (there were 10 or more) of past clients, with whom we spoke randomly. We also attended an open house event, talked to homeowners in the middle of shell construction whose addresses were not on the list, and also to people who had been living there for seven years. In short, this gave us a perfect cross-section and made us feel well taken care of, even though the negotiations became slower and more nerve-wracking the longer they lasted and there were several moments when we almost gave up.
I believe our persistence has been rewarded. We negotiated a lot and had maximum flexibility—even now, during the construction phase. For example, we arranged the earthworks ourselves. We were also flexible during the shell construction phase when deciding whether to make a window smaller, switch the heating system, or assign the tiling ourselves, and so on.
I have to say, there is no construction site where everything runs perfectly—keep that in mind. Building is a nightmare! If you think you just hire someone (whether an architect or a GC) and everything will automatically work out, you’re mistaken. You have to deeply familiarize yourself with the subject and things you don’t yet know, and you have to keep a critical eye on the construction process. Otherwise, you will never be happy with the result.
It’s not just black or white. You can have a lot of flexibility with a GC as well. Sure, they have their concept, but that doesn’t mean they won’t deviate. Possibly at higher costs. But you know what it will cost. With an architect, you have zero budget certainty. That, along with the approach some architects take, put us off. Also, it’s as described here—the GC has a completely different kind of leverage over subcontractors than the architect or someone who contracts each trade separately. We are currently experiencing this in our area. Every architect-led site is a disaster.
# Passage deleted at TE’s request; construction expert
Very different with us: every day there are 4–8 people on site. We started in mid-June, the shell will be finished next week, and move-in is scheduled for the end of December. This is contractually guaranteed, and if not fulfilled, the GC must pay a penalty. We negotiated that in. We also have an independent expert overseeing the construction process. Everyone passing our site praises the quality and speed. That gives me the feeling that we made the right decision. We have outpaced every architect-led site by a mile, even though some of those started much earlier. In times like these, I would only build with a GC. Find a reputable local GC—they tend to be more flexible. And get a lawyer to review the contract. Also, hire an independent expert, for example from a private homeowners’ association or a building protection organization. Trust me, you will need one if you want peace of mind. Be prepared that the construction phase will still be the most stressful time of your life! But in the end, there is the result, and if you’re willing to put in the effort to educate yourself, you will not regret it. We certainly would do it the same way again!
Of course, the GCs also varied a lot... from a chain-smoking representative from a large prefab company to the managing director of a local GC, to conversations like “oh, you’re young and want to build something unique... we don’t want that... young people just compare things online, we prefer to build with seniors who accept any price.” Honestly, we encountered everything!
In the end, after a long and intensive search, we decided on a well-known local GC. We asked them for a list of addresses (there were 10 or more) of past clients, with whom we spoke randomly. We also attended an open house event, talked to homeowners in the middle of shell construction whose addresses were not on the list, and also to people who had been living there for seven years. In short, this gave us a perfect cross-section and made us feel well taken care of, even though the negotiations became slower and more nerve-wracking the longer they lasted and there were several moments when we almost gave up.
I believe our persistence has been rewarded. We negotiated a lot and had maximum flexibility—even now, during the construction phase. For example, we arranged the earthworks ourselves. We were also flexible during the shell construction phase when deciding whether to make a window smaller, switch the heating system, or assign the tiling ourselves, and so on.
I have to say, there is no construction site where everything runs perfectly—keep that in mind. Building is a nightmare! If you think you just hire someone (whether an architect or a GC) and everything will automatically work out, you’re mistaken. You have to deeply familiarize yourself with the subject and things you don’t yet know, and you have to keep a critical eye on the construction process. Otherwise, you will never be happy with the result.
It’s not just black or white. You can have a lot of flexibility with a GC as well. Sure, they have their concept, but that doesn’t mean they won’t deviate. Possibly at higher costs. But you know what it will cost. With an architect, you have zero budget certainty. That, along with the approach some architects take, put us off. Also, it’s as described here—the GC has a completely different kind of leverage over subcontractors than the architect or someone who contracts each trade separately. We are currently experiencing this in our area. Every architect-led site is a disaster.
# Passage deleted at TE’s request; construction expert
Very different with us: every day there are 4–8 people on site. We started in mid-June, the shell will be finished next week, and move-in is scheduled for the end of December. This is contractually guaranteed, and if not fulfilled, the GC must pay a penalty. We negotiated that in. We also have an independent expert overseeing the construction process. Everyone passing our site praises the quality and speed. That gives me the feeling that we made the right decision. We have outpaced every architect-led site by a mile, even though some of those started much earlier. In times like these, I would only build with a GC. Find a reputable local GC—they tend to be more flexible. And get a lawyer to review the contract. Also, hire an independent expert, for example from a private homeowners’ association or a building protection organization. Trust me, you will need one if you want peace of mind. Be prepared that the construction phase will still be the most stressful time of your life! But in the end, there is the result, and if you’re willing to put in the effort to educate yourself, you will not regret it. We certainly would do it the same way again!
P
Peanuts7422 Jul 2016 08:49I have read several times here that using an architect is likely to be cheaper than going with a general contractor (GC).
The first issue is comparability. We had drawn up a floor plan ourselves, for which different GCs and also two architects submitted quotes. When dealing with the architects, we used an average price from the GCs as a budget, including their services.
The GC quotes varied by up to 25% (with not 100% identical but very comparable services and specifications), so it’s simply not possible to say a house costs a certain amount with a GC. High-quality prefabricated houses were also generally in the higher price range.
When we presented the architects with an average price as a budget, we were immediately told that only very inexpensive materials and fittings could be used since cost savings had to be made and compromises would be necessary.
Our impression was that with an architect, there is no price guarantee and the project tends to be even more expensive.
It’s hard to judge in general if this is always the case.
Since we had fixed prices for each trade but could have contracted them ourselves, we obtained additional quotes for various trades.
These were, even from the same craftsmen who ultimately work for the GC, all more expensive than the GC’s fixed prices.
Because the GC probably guarantees a certain volume of work, they can push most tradespeople to offer better prices.
Some of the companies were well known to us and had a good reputation. We spoke to several and they basically confirmed this. Some also mentioned that they still accepted such deals this year but would stop doing so in the future and rather want to contract their jobs directly.
In summary, whether using an architect or a GC, as the client you MUST regularly monitor everything and ideally engage an expert. No construction project ever runs smoothly without issues.
The first issue is comparability. We had drawn up a floor plan ourselves, for which different GCs and also two architects submitted quotes. When dealing with the architects, we used an average price from the GCs as a budget, including their services.
The GC quotes varied by up to 25% (with not 100% identical but very comparable services and specifications), so it’s simply not possible to say a house costs a certain amount with a GC. High-quality prefabricated houses were also generally in the higher price range.
When we presented the architects with an average price as a budget, we were immediately told that only very inexpensive materials and fittings could be used since cost savings had to be made and compromises would be necessary.
Our impression was that with an architect, there is no price guarantee and the project tends to be even more expensive.
It’s hard to judge in general if this is always the case.
Since we had fixed prices for each trade but could have contracted them ourselves, we obtained additional quotes for various trades.
These were, even from the same craftsmen who ultimately work for the GC, all more expensive than the GC’s fixed prices.
Because the GC probably guarantees a certain volume of work, they can push most tradespeople to offer better prices.
Some of the companies were well known to us and had a good reputation. We spoke to several and they basically confirmed this. Some also mentioned that they still accepted such deals this year but would stop doing so in the future and rather want to contract their jobs directly.
In summary, whether using an architect or a GC, as the client you MUST regularly monitor everything and ideally engage an expert. No construction project ever runs smoothly without issues.
Similar topics