Since I received great support [here] earlier, I would like to describe what I hope will be the last major point of dispute and ask for your assistance:
Contractual move-in date: June 1, 2016
Completion of outdoor landscaping according to contract: June 15, 2016
When we had the handover on June 1, I asked whether the outdoor landscaping would be finished on time. The response was that it probably wouldn’t be achievable. The next day, I inquired again if there was an update on whether the landscaping could be done by June 19, as we planned to have a birthday celebration then. The site manager’s trivial comment was: “Maybe there will already be a layer of gravel.”
As expected, it did not happen. To this day, the entire outdoor landscaping is not completed — the curbs have been installed, but only a few days ago.
A small side note: On June 14, I happened to get in touch with someone who had ordered the same terrace slabs we had chosen. He strongly advised against them, saying he had only problems with those slabs. We then decided on different ones and informed the construction company. At that point, we did not even have a written offer for the terrace extension or the cost of the new slabs. On June 28 (!!), the site manager asked me again which slabs exactly we wanted so they could be ordered.
On Wednesday, July 6, the site manager was at our place again to discuss another defect. When I asked why the adjacent semi-detached house, which is unoccupied, already had its terrace paved but the pathway to our house was still bare, he snapped: “You changed your terrace slabs!” When I pointed out that at least the pathway could be done, he said nothing more. The neighbor’s terrace uses the same paving slabs as our pathways.
After I insisted with the workers, at least the entrance was paved since there was almost a half-meter (about 1.5 feet) height difference there. By the way, today the driveway to the garage was paved.
Yesterday, Thursday, we had an appointment with the construction company. They explained that the company and their representatives had set July 1, 2016, as the move-in date, and therefore July 15, 2016, for the outdoor landscaping.
We politely pointed out that this is not our problem, since our notarized contract states June 15. The contract also specifies that if payment is late, we would owe 5% interest on the amount due, but unfortunately, nothing is regulated in the opposite case.
Their reaction was just that things like this do happen and that they are on the safe side, etc.
We did receive an offer for the terrace yesterday.
The company owner wants to review the case calmly and get back to us. However, his son already hinted that he knows how his father will decide in this matter.
Now the interesting question: What would be considered a justified compensation? I have tentatively scheduled an appointment with a lawyer (next Friday), who of course expects payment upfront. I am trying to avoid that for now, but if they keep being inflexible, I will have to bite the bullet.
I would like to exclude the terrace from this, as it wouldn’t have been finished on time either with the other slabs anyway, since they hadn’t even been ordered.
Thank you very much and have a nice weekend.
Contractual move-in date: June 1, 2016
Completion of outdoor landscaping according to contract: June 15, 2016
When we had the handover on June 1, I asked whether the outdoor landscaping would be finished on time. The response was that it probably wouldn’t be achievable. The next day, I inquired again if there was an update on whether the landscaping could be done by June 19, as we planned to have a birthday celebration then. The site manager’s trivial comment was: “Maybe there will already be a layer of gravel.”
As expected, it did not happen. To this day, the entire outdoor landscaping is not completed — the curbs have been installed, but only a few days ago.
A small side note: On June 14, I happened to get in touch with someone who had ordered the same terrace slabs we had chosen. He strongly advised against them, saying he had only problems with those slabs. We then decided on different ones and informed the construction company. At that point, we did not even have a written offer for the terrace extension or the cost of the new slabs. On June 28 (!!), the site manager asked me again which slabs exactly we wanted so they could be ordered.
On Wednesday, July 6, the site manager was at our place again to discuss another defect. When I asked why the adjacent semi-detached house, which is unoccupied, already had its terrace paved but the pathway to our house was still bare, he snapped: “You changed your terrace slabs!” When I pointed out that at least the pathway could be done, he said nothing more. The neighbor’s terrace uses the same paving slabs as our pathways.
After I insisted with the workers, at least the entrance was paved since there was almost a half-meter (about 1.5 feet) height difference there. By the way, today the driveway to the garage was paved.
Yesterday, Thursday, we had an appointment with the construction company. They explained that the company and their representatives had set July 1, 2016, as the move-in date, and therefore July 15, 2016, for the outdoor landscaping.
We politely pointed out that this is not our problem, since our notarized contract states June 15. The contract also specifies that if payment is late, we would owe 5% interest on the amount due, but unfortunately, nothing is regulated in the opposite case.
Their reaction was just that things like this do happen and that they are on the safe side, etc.
We did receive an offer for the terrace yesterday.
The company owner wants to review the case calmly and get back to us. However, his son already hinted that he knows how his father will decide in this matter.
Now the interesting question: What would be considered a justified compensation? I have tentatively scheduled an appointment with a lawyer (next Friday), who of course expects payment upfront. I am trying to avoid that for now, but if they keep being inflexible, I will have to bite the bullet.
I would like to exclude the terrace from this, as it wouldn’t have been finished on time either with the other slabs anyway, since they hadn’t even been ordered.
Thank you very much and have a nice weekend.
BeHaElJa schrieb:
Oh, so the garage was also commissioned (?) I understood it that he can’t use it yet, precisely because the paving isn’t finished. It’s probably the same as with us—the threshold between the construction road/gravel is too high to use it without the paving.B
Bieber081511 Jul 2016 21:15Bauexperte schrieb:
"Could it be that you have trouble letting things be?"Does this apply to both sides? So, is it acceptable if he pays his invoice a month late and accidentally forgets a few euros as well?My guess: The original poster would be more relaxed if their construction manager had kindly informed them a month before the scheduled completion date that, unfortunately, due to unforeseen circumstances, it would take a little longer. But when you are looking forward to completion 11 months (?) after signing, and the day before the deadline nothing is finished and there is no notification from the developer... well, then... By the way, there was no winter this year. If there had been bad weather, the developer could have just sent a short message ("we had bad weather, couldn’t proceed, therefore unfortunately...").
@wrack Anyway:
Since no penalty clause was agreed upon, your chances are limited. You can either endure the situation (it will work out, everything will be fine), or:
- Demand completion according to the contract in writing, setting a deadline (14 days)
- If there is a delay, send a second letter with a shorter deadline and announce that you will claim damages (e.g., costs for stopping a motorcycle... only things that can be monetarily documented)
- When it is completed and the invoice arrives, reduce the payment accordingly and wait for what comes next.
All correspondence should be sent as registered mail with return receipt for proof at a later date. The minor issue with the changed panels certainly doesn’t make things easier...
Alternatively: consult a lawyer (because advice from the internet can also be wrong).
Good luck, don’t let it upset you!
B
Bauexperte11 Jul 2016 22:09Bieber0815 schrieb:
Does this apply to both sides? So is it okay if he pays his invoice a month later and accidentally forgets a few euros as well?
I’m guessing: The OP would be more relaxed if his construction manager had kindly written a month before the completion date to say that, unfortunately, it will take a little longer due to adverse circumstances. But if, after 11 months (?) since signing, you’re now approaching completion and the day before the deadline nothing is finished and there is no message from the builder… well, then… By the way, winter didn’t really happen this year. If there had been bad weather, the builder would have sent a short note (“we had bad weather, couldn’t work, so unfortunately…”) Oh please – you’re not seriously trying to tell me that the OP should jump off a bridge just because his negligent contracting partner is setting that example?
By the way, I never said that I find the behavior of his contracting partner acceptable. However, I admit that the tone of the OP’s posts did not really appeal to me. But I also don’t see any point in prolonged legal disputes, where in the end only the lawyers win. And by the way – that would only delay the completion of the access road even longer. So not really good advice, is it?
There is no question that it is frustrating the contracting partner did not inform about the upcoming delay on time. However, I’m pretty sure that it always takes two to tango. There must also be reasons – which the OP has not mentioned here (and doesn’t have to) – explaining the delay. Forum users tend to form and post their opinions based on one-sided statements. From my professional experience, I know it’s very rare that decisions are made entirely on one’s own.
The only feasible approach:
Bieber0815 schrieb:
@wrack So here it goes:
- Request completion in writing with a deadline (14 days) according to the contract
- In case of delay, send a second letter with a shorter deadline and announce claiming damages (motorcycle storage costs… only things that can actually be documented financially) Then it’s not a matter of waiting – which would be quite foolish given the amount of time and effort invested so far – but rather a visit to the attorney, which of course gets the lawyers excited.
Conclusion:
Lawyers get involved – if things get complicated – court steps in. Depending on the amount of costs for the access road and terrace => regional court; the first hearing doesn’t take that long.
End:
Settlement. Consequences for the owed service: crystal ball mode on: monetary compensation instead of completion, plus twice the attorney fees (for engagement and settlement), the rest is not enough for access road & terrace crystal ball mode off.
So better to let things slide somewhat and deduct the garage rental costs from the final invoice. That might not speed things up either, but it’s easier on your stomach and nerves.
Regards, Bauexperte
B
Bieber081511 Jul 2016 22:15Bauexperte schrieb:
Deduct the garage rental costs from the final invoice. That's exactly what I’m saying.
Sir_Kermit schrieb:
There is a saying: In court and on the high seas, you are in God’s hands.
@wrack
Of course, contracts are binding, but they never guarantee 100% success. And when something goes wrong, everyone should first try to find a mutually satisfactory solution outside of legal options.
Putting someone in default, setting deadlines, and politely hinting at possible consequences—that, in my view, is the right approach.
sent from tabletWe tried that, but everything was just dismissed, which I find incomprehensible. Several issues were pointed out that were poorly or not at all addressed (a dent in the chimney cover—reported in January—fixed just last Monday...).
HilfeHilfe schrieb:
Well, I also know my East German in-law family. They have a very strong sense of “justice” and build up a threatening stance. It gets funny when the contract partner is also from the East. Two wooden blocks rarely come alone. Chain-link fence says hello.
No offense, just reminds me a bit Yes, us “bad” East Germans... and then we even have the East German Chancellor. All bad comes from the East.
Bieber0815 schrieb:
Does this apply to both sides? So, is it okay if he pays his invoice a month late and accidentally forgets a few dollars?
I guess: The original poster would be more relaxed if his site manager had kindly written a month before the completion date explaining that, unfortunately, due to adverse circumstances, it would take a bit longer. But if you’re looking forward to completion 11 months (?) after signing and still nothing is finished the day before the deadline, and there’s no communication from the builder... Well, then... By the way, we had no winter this year. If there had been bad weather, the builder would have at least sent a quick note (“bad weather, couldn’t work, so unfortunately ...”).
@wrack Anyway:
Since no penalty clause was agreed, your chances are slim. You can either accept the situation (it will get done, everything will be fine), or:
- Demand completion as per contract in writing with a 14-day deadline
- If delayed, send a second letter with a shorter deadline and announce claims for damages (motorcycle storage costs ... only for expenses that can be really documented monetarily)
- When it’s finally finished and the invoice arrives, deduct accordingly and wait for what else might come.
Send everything as registered mail to have proof later. The small issue with the changed panels obviously doesn’t make things easier...
Alternatively: consult a lawyer (because advice from the internet can also be wrong).
Good luck, don’t let it get to you!Finally someone who understands what this is really about. The defect was reported on June 15, but there was no response. The rest was also clearly communicated to the site manager—always brushed off with promises it was being handled, but nothing useful came of it.
BuildingExpert schrieb:
Oh please—you’re not seriously suggesting that the OP should jump off a bridge just because their delinquent contractor acts like that?
By the way, I never wrote that I find the contractor’s behavior acceptable. I do admit, though, that I didn’t like the tone of the OP’s posts. But I also see no point in lengthy legal disputes where the lawyers are the only winners in the end. And by the way—then the completion of the access way will take even longer. Not good advice, right...?
It’s certainly frustrating that the contractor didn’t communicate delays in time. But I’m pretty sure it takes two to tango. There must be reasons—which the OP hasn’t mentioned (and doesn’t have to)—that explain the delay. Forum users tend to form and post opinions based on one-sided statements. From my experience, it’s very rare that decisions are made in isolation.
The only feasible approach:
Don’t wait—that would be stupid after all the time and effort already invested—but go to a lawyer. That’s when lawyers get busy.
Conclusion:
Lawyers get paid—if things go wrong, court gets involved. Depending on the amount for the access and terrace, it would be the regional court; the first hearing doesn’t take that long.
Outcome:
Settlement. Consequences for the owed work: crystal ball mode on: monetary compensation instead of completion, plus 2x lawyer fees (for hiring and settlement), not enough left for access & terrace crystal ball mode off.
So better to let it go and deduct the garage rental costs from the final invoice. It might not be faster, but it’s easier on your stomach and nerves.
Best regards, BuildingExpertI wouldn’t have liked a legal dispute either, but if you act as if everything is fine, nothing happened, and this kind of thing is normal? Just to remind you: why have contracts with deadlines if no one sticks to them? Then you don’t need contracts at all and can just say: “Your house will be finished sometime... oh, and the outdoor area, we’ll see...”
Why would the access take even longer then? That would actually play more in my favor—according to your statement! The longer it takes, the more euros :P
The lawyer always wins... no matter what.
In the meantime a solution has been found. The boss finally got in touch personally; by the way, he wasn’t really aware of what was going on.
The outdoor area is now almost fully usable—tomorrow will be some final compacting, and then just in time for the last day of vacation, maybe you can sit outside in the sun... um, the rain.
In summary: Contracts are worthless, East Germans are complainers and should just accept everything (and woe betide anyone who protests!), better to let things slide every day and live for the moment—the money will come by itself... that’s how I imagine some people working.
Capitalism = exploitation of people by people...
Thanks again for the... well, whatever. Anyway, thanks.
wrack schrieb:
East Germans are complainers and should just accept everything (and woe betide anyone who resists!), just let things slide every day and live for the moment – after all, the money comes by itself… that’s how I imagine some people at work too..
Thanks again for the… well, whatever it is… oh well – thanks I can understand the frustration, but with such a conclusion / remark, you’re not doing any favors to us East Germans either (with the image you are (over)painting here).
By the way, if you believe you have exhausted all "means," you will have to enforce your claims firmly. However – financial compensation is not provided for in the contract – so your primary goal could only be the prompt completion. In any case, this would likely have occurred around the time of the dispute.
(I have read that things settled down towards the end – just a final comment)
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