ᐅ Ventilation in New Construction (Central vs. Decentralized), Noise Disturbance

Created on: 20 Jun 2016 20:41
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Kiri123
Hello everyone,

I am currently considering the ventilation system for our planned new build (details: Kfw 70, 2 full floors + basement + unheated attic, hipped roof, 200m² (2,150 sq ft) living space). We live in a rural area and like to keep the windows open sometimes, so we don’t necessarily have to rely entirely on mechanical ventilation.

I am torn between a central controlled mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery, a central exhaust with decentralized supply air, and decentralized supply/exhaust with heat recovery. My requirements are:
• Ventilation of bathrooms (master bathroom, children’s bathroom without windows, and guest toilet without windows) with demand-controlled ventilation based on usage
• I want to avoid having to open windows every few hours while still maintaining high indoor air quality
• Not too noisy, as I am very sensitive to noise when trying to sleep
• I am also sensitive to dry air; for example, I cannot tolerate air from air conditioning or sports halls very well

Below are the pros and cons of each system as I see them:

Central Controlled Mechanical Ventilation with Heat Recovery
+the most mature system
-expensive (I estimate about 10,000 to 13,000 Euros)
-more complex planning, including suspending and boxing in ducts
-(I heard from a provider of decentralized ventilation systems: as soon as I turn up the ventilation in the living room, more warm air is blown into the bedroom – not desirable)
-the indoor air quality in the prefabricated houses with controlled ventilation that we visited was always poor. That makes me skeptical

Central Exhaust with Decentralized Supply Air
+cheaper (maybe 2,000 to 3,000 Euros?)
+should meet minimum requirements
-energy wasted (or can I reuse the heat energy somehow? I am planning to install an air-water heat pump for heating and hot water production. Maybe the heat can be used here in a useful way). I was advised against a complete exhaust heat pump. Perhaps combined exhaust/fresh air heat pumps exist?
-cold air from decentralized supply? (I have read that with proper planning this is no problem because the supply air mixes “appropriately” with the existing indoor air)
-somewhat contradicts the idea of energy-efficient houses. Still, it’s probably more efficient than constantly having windows tilted open.

Decentralized Ventilation with Heat Recovery
+If I simply install one of these ventilators in the living-dining area, the master bathroom, and the children’s bathroom (+ exhaust in the toilet), the minimum requirements should be met. I estimate about 3,000 Euros (1,000 Euros per unit)
-if I want to cover all other rooms to avoid window ventilation entirely, it gets more expensive (maybe ~8,000 Euros) and:
-I would have many holes in the building envelope
-I hesitate to install these devices in bedrooms or children’s rooms because I think they may be too noisy.

Could you please help me with the decision? Maybe by sharing your experience or confirming or disproving some of my points? I would also like to see different ventilators in practice. Do you have any tips? I heard it might be possible somewhere in Berlin, but I live in the postal code area 5xxxx.

I look forward to your opinions.
Kiri
B
Bieber0815
28 Jun 2016 07:08
T21150 schrieb:
Features like summer bypass: overrated
Well, the system does help, as it automatically opens or closes the bypass (for example, at night when the residents are asleep, but there are a few hours when it is cooler outside than inside).
S
Sebastian79
28 Jun 2016 07:33
And what good does it do? The effect is negligible because the exchange rates are too low.

An open window at night is more effective.
Mycraft28 Jun 2016 07:46
Normally, the bypass is generally open during the summer... it does help, but you only really notice the effect after two nights and if the day in between was not too hot.
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Curly
28 Jun 2016 09:03
A quick question about installing a central ventilation system: does the unit have to be located exactly where the ducts pass through the exterior wall to the outside, or is it possible to route a duct through another room before exiting the building? In our case, the utility room is located behind the guest bathroom, so both air outlets would be on the same side of the house. I’ve read that the air outlets should be on two different sides of the house (ideally at a corner), which would only be possible if the utility room was also located at a corner of the building. So, would it be feasible to route a duct through the guest bathroom to the outside?

Best regards,
Sabine
K
Kiri123
28 Jun 2016 10:32
Thank you all for the responses here.
At the moment, I am leaning towards installing decentralized units from Meltem. I am thinking of three units operating on a two-room system each, so that one bathroom/toilet is ventilated together with another room (bedroom, child's room, office). Additionally, I would install a standard unit in the living room.
This would put my material costs at around 5,000 euros (about 5,000 USD), and I believe the installation would be quick and straightforward (flush-mounted set --> built directly into the wall + installing 2–3 pipes).

This way, I cover all rooms at least partially, meet my minimum requirements, stay within budget, and avoid having to run pipes throughout the entire house and open up ceilings accordingly.

Am I being too optimistic here?
Are the installation costs likely to be higher, making it almost as expensive as a centralized system in the end? Do I possibly need to consider structural issues when running pipes between rooms? Or are there other factors I should consider when installing the ventilators besides simply covering all rooms? I assume details like air exchange rates and airflow volumes won’t be fully addressed here (but as I mentioned, I am not opposed to ventilating by opening windows if needed).
Also, I can imagine it might be unpleasant if, for example, I am working in the office and the demand-controlled ventilation in the guest toilet activates—could this cause more air to be pushed into the office and make the fan louder?
Another question: Do I need to create door vents or grilles to allow air to circulate between the individual rooms?

Thank you very much!
Kiri