Hello everyone,
I know my title is a bit ambiguous. I initially wanted to write “toilet cartel,” but that wouldn’t be nearly as funny.
We received a first quote for the sanitary fixtures, and I’m really taken aback. I carefully researched the prices for the items I want online beforehand. I can’t accept paying €980 (about $1,070) in this quote for a washbasin that I can buy online for €250 (about $270)! That’s over 300% more. Where do these prices come from, generally speaking? I understand that the manufacturer, the supplier, and finally the installer all want to make a profit… but is there no way to get these items cheaper, the ones the installer will install?
I just don’t understand why we’re supposed to pay an additional €7,700 (about $8,400) for a few things we want done differently. Our general contractor doesn’t care where we source the bathroom fixtures, so we’re not tied to this one supplier.
How did you handle this? Did you just accept the extra cost? Or did anyone dare to organize and have these things installed independently?
Thanks in advance for your advice!
I know my title is a bit ambiguous. I initially wanted to write “toilet cartel,” but that wouldn’t be nearly as funny.
We received a first quote for the sanitary fixtures, and I’m really taken aback. I carefully researched the prices for the items I want online beforehand. I can’t accept paying €980 (about $1,070) in this quote for a washbasin that I can buy online for €250 (about $270)! That’s over 300% more. Where do these prices come from, generally speaking? I understand that the manufacturer, the supplier, and finally the installer all want to make a profit… but is there no way to get these items cheaper, the ones the installer will install?
I just don’t understand why we’re supposed to pay an additional €7,700 (about $8,400) for a few things we want done differently. Our general contractor doesn’t care where we source the bathroom fixtures, so we’re not tied to this one supplier.
How did you handle this? Did you just accept the extra cost? Or did anyone dare to organize and have these things installed independently?
Thanks in advance for your advice!
S
Sebastian795 Apr 2016 09:37Anything connected to the drinking water supply should strictly not be installed by amateurs.
Buying online and then looking for someone to install it cheaply feels wrong to me – just like excessive surcharges. A good plumber charges reasonable extra fees, and that’s fine.
I pay my plumber almost the same as at megabad, Reuter, or similar – sometimes even less! And there was no negotiation involved…
Buying online and then looking for someone to install it cheaply feels wrong to me – just like excessive surcharges. A good plumber charges reasonable extra fees, and that’s fine.
I pay my plumber almost the same as at megabad, Reuter, or similar – sometimes even less! And there was no negotiation involved…
Bautraum20155 Apr 2016 09:42I don’t want to take away anyone’s rightful earnings. The plumber should be paid fairly. I just don’t agree with the prices set by the supplier. On the internet, I’ve seen the term “toilet cartel” or “toilet mafia”... which, in my opinion, is quite fitting.
Hello, if the general contractor (GC) charges those prices, they have to credit you when you remove the item. So you would have to buy it yourself and install it on the wall. It’s really not rocket science. Alternatively, you could find a plumber or installer who will install materials you supply yourself. They will likely charge a bit more for the labor since they won’t make any profit on the materials, but it should still be cheaper overall. And what about the warranty? First, it’s questionable whether you can even claim a defect on a sink from the GC after 1.5 years, and secondly, it’s probably not worth the hassle. You can easily get good and attractive sinks for 150–250 € (approximately 160–270 USD). For the money you save, you can afford to write off a few defects.
Of course, if you want those 3,000 € (around 3,200 USD) sinks, I would recommend having the GC do the work…
Best regards,
Andreas
Of course, if you want those 3,000 € (around 3,200 USD) sinks, I would recommend having the GC do the work…
Best regards,
Andreas
The issue with the missing warranty is just their standard excuse. And yes, many installers are initially reluctant to fit the parts. Their problem is that they could damage your item during installation and would be liable for it, even though their liability is actually included in the price of the component (from which they don’t make any profit here).
Some things are difficult to install yourself, such as a bathtub, especially if tiling is done around it (when this is included in the scope of work for house construction). Other items like toilets or especially the washbasin are really easy to replace yourself. It’s complete nonsense that only professionals are allowed to fasten a washbasin. Since a backflow prevention valve is installed after the meter, the worst case is that you have a problem with the water supply (which is also unlikely—what could actually happen?!).
The prices online for the parts are very low because basically “hardly anyone” can install these parts bought there themselves. The selection is huge, but hardly anyone buys from there (proportionally). Sellers undercut each other just so that someone buys something at all. What good is a bigger, better bathtub for $300 instead of $2,000 if you can’t get it installed and can’t find a real professional to fit it? It’s roughly like 1,000 online shops for firearms, where no one is allowed to buy without the official permit...
Some things are difficult to install yourself, such as a bathtub, especially if tiling is done around it (when this is included in the scope of work for house construction). Other items like toilets or especially the washbasin are really easy to replace yourself. It’s complete nonsense that only professionals are allowed to fasten a washbasin. Since a backflow prevention valve is installed after the meter, the worst case is that you have a problem with the water supply (which is also unlikely—what could actually happen?!).
The prices online for the parts are very low because basically “hardly anyone” can install these parts bought there themselves. The selection is huge, but hardly anyone buys from there (proportionally). Sellers undercut each other just so that someone buys something at all. What good is a bigger, better bathtub for $300 instead of $2,000 if you can’t get it installed and can’t find a real professional to fit it? It’s roughly like 1,000 online shops for firearms, where no one is allowed to buy without the official permit...
S
Steffen805 Apr 2016 10:36Payday schrieb:
The prices for the parts online are so low mainly because "very few" people can actually install the parts they buy there themselves. There is a huge selection, but only a small percentage of people actually purchase them. Sellers end up undercutting each other just to make any sales at all. What good is a larger, better bathtub for $300 instead of $2,000 if you can't get it installed and can't find a true professional to do the job? You can roughly compare it to having 1,000 online shops selling firearms, but nobody is allowed to buy without official authorization...That is nonsense. The market segment is actually quite significant.
Steffen80 schrieb:
That’s nonsense. The impact is definitely significant. But you do know what the term "ratio" means, right? Compared to total sales, only a relatively small amount is bought online. No one would sell a product with a recommended retail price of €1000 for €300 if they could get €700 due to your so-called "significant" online sales.
Of course, a lot is sold online; otherwise, there wouldn’t be so many sellers. However, installation is associated with difficulties, which are compensated by the low sales price.
In the end, the assembly of parts bought online is either done by the buyer themselves or as a favor from a friend, since hardly any professional installer officially takes on the job (for liability reasons). I already explained the reason in a previous post.
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