ᐅ Electrical installation too expensive – oversized or just overpriced?
Created on: 5 Oct 2015 14:57
D
derelvis
Hello everyone,
We received the quotation for the electrical installation, and I had to sit down first.
So far, everything has roughly matched the values found online (excavation, surveying, structural engineering, architect fees, etc.), but the electrical installation is about twice as expensive as what is generally indicated on the internet: €23,000, while we had planned for €10,000–12,000.
On closer inspection, we noticed that the quotation seems oversized and appears to cover all possible contingencies. The final billing is based on actual usage, so I would like to get your opinion on how over-dimensioned it really is. The prices include installation.
A few items can be deducted or reduced considerably. (For example, I do not need 17 temperature controllers with displays at €100 each), which would save about €1,000 right away. Also, a network cabinet with a patch panel listed at €400 can be found for about half that price. Having 110 sockets plus 10 Schuko sockets also seems excessive to me.
There are also elements included that I have not seen elsewhere: all installations (kitchen, heating, garage), roller shutter control and connection, ventilation installation, mailbox with intercom system. Still, I cannot get the total below €15,000, let alone €10,000.
Here are my top 10 items – is this very oversized? Or am I unlikely to save much? Especially the cable lengths are about double what I see online.
Room temperature controller €104.12, 17 pcs, €1,770.04
Sheathed cable 5*1.5 mm², €1.83 per meter, 700 m, €1,281.00
Socket outlet Jung AS520, €9.25, 110 pcs, €1,017.50
Meter cabinet €856.34, 1 pc, €856.34
Sheathed cable 3*1.5 mm², €1.41 per meter, 600 m, €846.00
Mailbox system with intercom €568.49, 1 pc, €568.49
Electronic transformer €29.43, 14 pcs, €412.02
Silicone protective cap €26.10, 14 pcs, €365.40
FR bathroom light €58.38, 6 pcs, €350.28
Residual current circuit breaker €68.26, 5 pcs, €341.30
Roller shutter: programming €338.71, 1 pc, €338.71
We received the quotation for the electrical installation, and I had to sit down first.
So far, everything has roughly matched the values found online (excavation, surveying, structural engineering, architect fees, etc.), but the electrical installation is about twice as expensive as what is generally indicated on the internet: €23,000, while we had planned for €10,000–12,000.
On closer inspection, we noticed that the quotation seems oversized and appears to cover all possible contingencies. The final billing is based on actual usage, so I would like to get your opinion on how over-dimensioned it really is. The prices include installation.
A few items can be deducted or reduced considerably. (For example, I do not need 17 temperature controllers with displays at €100 each), which would save about €1,000 right away. Also, a network cabinet with a patch panel listed at €400 can be found for about half that price. Having 110 sockets plus 10 Schuko sockets also seems excessive to me.
There are also elements included that I have not seen elsewhere: all installations (kitchen, heating, garage), roller shutter control and connection, ventilation installation, mailbox with intercom system. Still, I cannot get the total below €15,000, let alone €10,000.
Here are my top 10 items – is this very oversized? Or am I unlikely to save much? Especially the cable lengths are about double what I see online.
Room temperature controller €104.12, 17 pcs, €1,770.04
Sheathed cable 5*1.5 mm², €1.83 per meter, 700 m, €1,281.00
Socket outlet Jung AS520, €9.25, 110 pcs, €1,017.50
Meter cabinet €856.34, 1 pc, €856.34
Sheathed cable 3*1.5 mm², €1.41 per meter, 600 m, €846.00
Mailbox system with intercom €568.49, 1 pc, €568.49
Electronic transformer €29.43, 14 pcs, €412.02
Silicone protective cap €26.10, 14 pcs, €365.40
FR bathroom light €58.38, 6 pcs, €350.28
Residual current circuit breaker €68.26, 5 pcs, €341.30
Roller shutter: programming €338.71, 1 pc, €338.71
P
Peanuts7420 Jan 2016 09:32That’s why I quickly said "yes" in "..."
What I mainly wanted to say is that it’s quite easy to adjust the temperature in a room. With the estimating techniques, as you correctly call them, you do need to experiment a bit. In our system, in a “standard setting,” you get about 23.5–24 degrees Celsius (74–75°F), and then I noted 2–3 other settings that I find useful, for example, for the hallway or an unused guest room. Of course, you need a thermometer and a few hours or one day for the system to stabilize and test these settings...
But regarding hydraulic balancing, you keep hearing about it. Can you do it yourself? I always assumed the valves open when the thermostat signals that it’s too cold and close again once the desired temperature is reached?
What I mainly wanted to say is that it’s quite easy to adjust the temperature in a room. With the estimating techniques, as you correctly call them, you do need to experiment a bit. In our system, in a “standard setting,” you get about 23.5–24 degrees Celsius (74–75°F), and then I noted 2–3 other settings that I find useful, for example, for the hallway or an unused guest room. Of course, you need a thermometer and a few hours or one day for the system to stabilize and test these settings...
But regarding hydraulic balancing, you keep hearing about it. Can you do it yourself? I always assumed the valves open when the thermostat signals that it’s too cold and close again once the desired temperature is reached?
No, you can’t do this yourself because it’s a relatively complex calculation… but if someone calculates everything for you and only gives you the valve rotation settings, then yes, you can adjust the valves yourself.
Simple thermostats are basically bimetallic strips… just unscrew one and you’ll see what I mean…
That’s the assumption of the average user… it’s not entirely wrong, but also not entirely correct…
This approach is like constantly driving at full throttle and only controlling your speed with the brakes… nobody does that, right?
You only apply as much throttle as necessary…
And differential pressure controllers (DPC) are nothing more than “emergency brakes”: if the room is already too warm, the flow is throttled… if it gets too cold, more heat is added, and so on, causing fluctuations back and forth… but that’s a longer story…
Without DPCs and with a well-balanced heating system, the comfort temperature is maintained steadily and there are hardly any fluctuations…
Simple thermostats are basically bimetallic strips… just unscrew one and you’ll see what I mean…
Peanuts74 schrieb:
My assumption has always been that the valves open when the thermostat signals that it’s too cold and close when the desired temperature is reached again?
That’s the assumption of the average user… it’s not entirely wrong, but also not entirely correct…
This approach is like constantly driving at full throttle and only controlling your speed with the brakes… nobody does that, right?
You only apply as much throttle as necessary…
And differential pressure controllers (DPC) are nothing more than “emergency brakes”: if the room is already too warm, the flow is throttled… if it gets too cold, more heat is added, and so on, causing fluctuations back and forth… but that’s a longer story…
Without DPCs and with a well-balanced heating system, the comfort temperature is maintained steadily and there are hardly any fluctuations…
P
Peanuts7420 Jan 2016 09:54It goes without saying that the temperature is usually the same, but I like to turn up the heating a bit when, for example, I have a cold or lower it by about 2°C (3.6°F) when I’m away for a few days. In those cases, I don’t want to adjust the heating system itself every time, but just slightly change 3-4 thermostats...
Peanuts74 schrieb:
It’s clear that the temperature is usually the same, but I like to turn the heating up a bit when I have a cold, for example, or set it 2 degrees lower when I’m away for a few days. In those cases, I don’t want to adjust each radiator valve individually, but just slightly change the settings on 3-4 thermostats...For that situation, even without a room thermostat I have two options:- Turn on the wood stove
- Increase the target room temperature on the heat pump
I don't find 110 sockets excessive at all. I actually think my house is rather small, and there are at least 10 sockets per room (children's rooms, guest rooms), and in many rooms significantly more (the kitchen alone has 8 above the countertop, 4 on the kitchen island). In the living room, there are over 10 sockets just at the multimedia area (some can be switched together, others are permanently on). That way, 110 fills up quickly...
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