ᐅ Request for Evaluation of Heating and Ventilation Concept for a New Single-Family House
Created on: 31 Dec 2015 19:32
H
holg182
Hello everyone,
We are planning to build a detached single-family house, about 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft), on an 1100 sqm (11,840 sq ft) plot at the edge of town with a slight slope on slate soil. We are aiming for approximately a KfW 70 energy efficiency level, although with the current interest rates we are not relying on the related subsidies. Overall, our planning is going quite well, but when it comes to heating and ventilation, we are unsure if our plan really makes sense. Therefore, we appreciate your opinions on this 🙂
In general, we want to build and operate the house simply and cost-effectively, and it would be great if we could do this with a clear conscience for the environment. Our idea:
- A fairly well-insulated building envelope (see above), without it becoming a bottomless pit.
- Air-to-water heat pump
- Pellet stove in the living room
- Controlled mechanical ventilation (with heat recovery)
- Underfloor heating
The idea is that the air-to-water heat pump supplies most of the heat for the house, and the pellet stove in the living room provides extra support when it gets very cold outside. Ideally, this would happen automatically—so that the pellet stove switches on as soon as the outside temperature drops to a certain value, e.g., -3°C (27°F).
Here are a few questions for you experts:
1. Does this concept make sense as a whole?
2. Or would it be better / simpler / more cost-effective overall to use gas for purchase, operation, and maintenance?
3. Should the pellet stove in our setup be water-bearing (hydronic) or not?
4. Should the controlled mechanical ventilation system include heat recovery, or is that not necessarily required? Does a central or decentralized system make more sense here?
5. How can I find someone who can plan, recommend, offer, and install the right equipment for this setup (and not just the products that provide them with the highest commission)?
Thank you very much for your opinions—and Happy New Year in advance 🙂
We are planning to build a detached single-family house, about 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft), on an 1100 sqm (11,840 sq ft) plot at the edge of town with a slight slope on slate soil. We are aiming for approximately a KfW 70 energy efficiency level, although with the current interest rates we are not relying on the related subsidies. Overall, our planning is going quite well, but when it comes to heating and ventilation, we are unsure if our plan really makes sense. Therefore, we appreciate your opinions on this 🙂
In general, we want to build and operate the house simply and cost-effectively, and it would be great if we could do this with a clear conscience for the environment. Our idea:
- A fairly well-insulated building envelope (see above), without it becoming a bottomless pit.
- Air-to-water heat pump
- Pellet stove in the living room
- Controlled mechanical ventilation (with heat recovery)
- Underfloor heating
The idea is that the air-to-water heat pump supplies most of the heat for the house, and the pellet stove in the living room provides extra support when it gets very cold outside. Ideally, this would happen automatically—so that the pellet stove switches on as soon as the outside temperature drops to a certain value, e.g., -3°C (27°F).
Here are a few questions for you experts:
1. Does this concept make sense as a whole?
2. Or would it be better / simpler / more cost-effective overall to use gas for purchase, operation, and maintenance?
3. Should the pellet stove in our setup be water-bearing (hydronic) or not?
4. Should the controlled mechanical ventilation system include heat recovery, or is that not necessarily required? Does a central or decentralized system make more sense here?
5. How can I find someone who can plan, recommend, offer, and install the right equipment for this setup (and not just the products that provide them with the highest commission)?
Thank you very much for your opinions—and Happy New Year in advance 🙂
B
Bauexperte5 Jan 2016 15:43Sebastian79 schrieb:
....
then for the sake of the noise, for me and especially my neighbors. Sure; exactly in line with the idea that Germans generally believe they hear what they see 😕
When you read some of the things you sometimes write with a clear mind, I simply have no words...
Just my 2 cents
S
Sebastian795 Jan 2016 15:47Just because you seem to prefer installing them doesn’t mean you need to take offense.
I mentioned that especially cheap units tend to be noisy – and those are often installed by the person in question, which explains the noise.
Believe it or not, noise pollution is increasing more and more, and these devices are definitely part of the cause.
I have heard units from, for example, Waterkotte, which were hardly noticeable… so it’s better to read with an open mind and not look for faults everywhere.
I mentioned that especially cheap units tend to be noisy – and those are often installed by the person in question, which explains the noise.
Believe it or not, noise pollution is increasing more and more, and these devices are definitely part of the cause.
I have heard units from, for example, Waterkotte, which were hardly noticeable… so it’s better to read with an open mind and not look for faults everywhere.
B
Bauexperte5 Jan 2016 15:59Hello Sebastian,
There are days when I can read your posts and then easily move on to the next thread; and then there are days when it just doesn’t work out for me. Today is one of those days, especially since you’re playing into a stereotype.
Just to be clear — we install both split systems and fully indoor units. However, I don’t like nonsense being written about one system or the other; all split systems are subject to regulations regarding noise emissions... even the supposedly cheap ones.
Then I assume you completely avoid owning a car yourself? You probably want to forbid moped riders from pursuing their hobby, ban skateboarding altogether, and obviously skip every barbecue in your future garden as well? Let’s keep things realistic!
You could also choose to install an Ochsner; then you’d just have the “noise” inside instead of outside 😉
My mind is working just fine today; thanks 😉
Best regards, Bauexperte
Sebastian79 schrieb:
Just because you seem to like installing them doesn’t mean you have to get offended right away.
There are days when I can read your posts and then easily move on to the next thread; and then there are days when it just doesn’t work out for me. Today is one of those days, especially since you’re playing into a stereotype.
Just to be clear — we install both split systems and fully indoor units. However, I don’t like nonsense being written about one system or the other; all split systems are subject to regulations regarding noise emissions... even the supposedly cheap ones.
Sebastian79 schrieb:
Even if you don’t believe it, noise pollution is increasing all the time, and these units are definitely part of the cause.
Then I assume you completely avoid owning a car yourself? You probably want to forbid moped riders from pursuing their hobby, ban skateboarding altogether, and obviously skip every barbecue in your future garden as well? Let’s keep things realistic!
Sebastian79 schrieb:
I’ve heard devices from, for example, Waterkotte, that were barely noticeable... so better read with a clear mind and not look for faults everywhere.
You could also choose to install an Ochsner; then you’d just have the “noise” inside instead of outside 😉
My mind is working just fine today; thanks 😉
Best regards, Bauexperte
S
Sebastian795 Jan 2016 16:06I know that these devices have to comply with certain standards – it’s the same with car noise, yet some vehicles leave the factory louder than any aftermarket exhaust system. 😉
And those standard measurements for the devices are carried out under laboratory conditions at very specific distances.
If you don’t strictly follow the installation guidelines and the system is poorly adjusted, you often end up with noise issues.
Of course, it’s often subjective – noise tends to be more noticeable when it happens more frequently. 😉
No one here actually owns one of these; well, one person does, but they keep it in the attic of their garage. So, I’m not affected...
I’m not trying to demonize the devices, but saying that in winter people keep their windows closed so it doesn’t really bother anyone reveals a lot. 😉
There are plenty of reports online and lawsuits related to these devices. But sure, typical German problem – that’s always an easy argument.
It’s always interesting how, as a moderator, you just can’t resist making personal jabs. But that’s how everyone knows you by now. 🙂
And those standard measurements for the devices are carried out under laboratory conditions at very specific distances.
If you don’t strictly follow the installation guidelines and the system is poorly adjusted, you often end up with noise issues.
Of course, it’s often subjective – noise tends to be more noticeable when it happens more frequently. 😉
No one here actually owns one of these; well, one person does, but they keep it in the attic of their garage. So, I’m not affected...
I’m not trying to demonize the devices, but saying that in winter people keep their windows closed so it doesn’t really bother anyone reveals a lot. 😉
There are plenty of reports online and lawsuits related to these devices. But sure, typical German problem – that’s always an easy argument.
It’s always interesting how, as a moderator, you just can’t resist making personal jabs. But that’s how everyone knows you by now. 🙂
B
Bauexperte5 Jan 2016 16:15Sebastian79 schrieb:
It's always interesting how, as a moderator, you still can't resist personal jabs. I strongly urge you to stop discrediting and personally belittling me from now on. You have already used up any goodwill in this regard; therefore, I do not feel guilty about temporarily banning you from the forum.
Regards, Bauexperte
S
Sebastian795 Jan 2016 16:18Oh, so you’re bringing out the big guns? That’s unfortunate, but then please delete my account – I won’t be blackmailed by you.
And I request the deletion of all attachments, of which I own the rights.
I certainly don’t need your mercy – so all the best.
And I request the deletion of all attachments, of which I own the rights.
I certainly don’t need your mercy – so all the best.