ᐅ Construction supervision through a homeowners’ protection association, private builders’ organization, technical inspection agency (such as TÜV or DEKRA), independent expert, or another option...?
Created on: 2 Dec 2015 16:04
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BauexperteB
Bauexperte2 Dec 2015 16:04A friendly hello to everyone,
who doesn’t know it... or has at least read or heard somewhere: external construction supervision is supposed to help avoid trouble/problems during the adventure of building a house!
Since this topic often comes up in discussions, I would like to ask you to share your personal experiences with experts or associations on the way to your own home in this thread:
Homeowners who consciously decided against external supervision:
As this thread fills up with contributions (which I hope it will), I will pin it at the top of this section. Then every potential homeowner – before starting their project – can get information on the pros and cons of both options.
Thanks for your support!
Best regards, Bauexperte
who doesn’t know it... or has at least read or heard somewhere: external construction supervision is supposed to help avoid trouble/problems during the adventure of building a house!
Since this topic often comes up in discussions, I would like to ask you to share your personal experiences with experts or associations on the way to your own home in this thread:
- Why did you hire external construction supervision?
- Which expert did you work with?
- How many inspections (at which stage of the construction process) did you arrange?
- What did it cost?
- What are your experiences?
- Would you make the same decision again?
Homeowners who consciously decided against external supervision:
- Why did you choose not to use an expert?
- What are your experiences?
- Would you decide the same way again?
As this thread fills up with contributions (which I hope it will), I will pin it at the top of this section. Then every potential homeowner – before starting their project – can get information on the pros and cons of both options.
Thanks for your support!
Best regards, Bauexperte
We deliberately decided not to hire an independent expert because we were concerned it might negatively affect the relationship between us and the construction company.
Although we are not completely finished yet, I would currently give a mixed overall assessment. As with any construction project, some unforeseen issues have arisen. In almost all the cases we identified* – not always defects in the strict sense, but also planning inaccuracies – the construction company has been accommodating. Sometimes not immediately and only after persistent follow-up, but they even worked on a Sunday once, for which we want to give our site manager a proper gift. Naturally, I still lost sleep over some things, especially at the beginning.
I believe it would not have been any different with an expert. In some cases, you might have been able to insist more forcefully on your rights and probably negotiate price reductions – but the downside could have been that the general contractor would have scrutinized the contract very closely and "compensated" elsewhere, at least that’s my assumption.
I’m curious to hear about other homeowners’ experiences with experts.
If I could start again, I might choose to work with an independent architect who manages all phases, including detailed design. To avoid exceeding the budget – I am convinced that good planning simply costs more – I would probably build about 25m² (270 sq ft) smaller.
* we paid very close attention and read extensively, but surely overlooked some things due to limited technical knowledge and may have also “unjustly” requested others – I think this is exactly where the key point of the discussion will be.
Although we are not completely finished yet, I would currently give a mixed overall assessment. As with any construction project, some unforeseen issues have arisen. In almost all the cases we identified* – not always defects in the strict sense, but also planning inaccuracies – the construction company has been accommodating. Sometimes not immediately and only after persistent follow-up, but they even worked on a Sunday once, for which we want to give our site manager a proper gift. Naturally, I still lost sleep over some things, especially at the beginning.
I believe it would not have been any different with an expert. In some cases, you might have been able to insist more forcefully on your rights and probably negotiate price reductions – but the downside could have been that the general contractor would have scrutinized the contract very closely and "compensated" elsewhere, at least that’s my assumption.
I’m curious to hear about other homeowners’ experiences with experts.
If I could start again, I might choose to work with an independent architect who manages all phases, including detailed design. To avoid exceeding the budget – I am convinced that good planning simply costs more – I would probably build about 25m² (270 sq ft) smaller.
* we paid very close attention and read extensively, but surely overlooked some things due to limited technical knowledge and may have also “unjustly” requested others – I think this is exactly where the key point of the discussion will be.
We hired an independent expert because neither of us has any experience with construction, and so far, none of our relatives or friends have been involved in building or working on construction sites.
The cost for our construction supervisor was about 3000€ for 9 inspections/site visits and 1 inspection before the warranty period ended.
Advantages:
- The supervisor conducts inspections during daylight hours (I was often only able to visit the site after dark due to the time of year)
- I didn’t always have to be present for interim inspections.
- Discussions take place between professionals – as a layperson, you’re at a serious disadvantage when the site manager and subcontractors say, “That’s fine,” “It’s within the standard,” or “According to DIN xyz, this is correct.”
- Many issues were resolved behind the scenes in our favor without me having to get involved or sometimes even before we found out about them.
- The supervisor was already involved during contract negotiations and helped negotiate certain services.
- As a layperson, you often lack the equipment (e.g., moisture measurement devices), don’t know what to look out for (e.g., waterproofing work), and are unfamiliar with standards such as DIN.
- Errors are identified immediately instead of only after they cause secondary damage.
- This might just be a feeling, but I imagine the craftsmen work more carefully when they know an expert will review their work (only our plasterers didn’t seem to care).
- More peace of mind.
Disadvantages:
3000€ less in the household budget.
Anecdote from next door:
In the neighboring house (built by the same company), our supervisor was brought in as an expert.
The dispute was about uneven plaster at the terrace door reveal, where the builder claimed it was within the standard (probably only if you have had a few beers). The expert report identified so many defects in the house that about half of the plaster would have needed to be removed and the window sills taken out again, among other issues. Unfortunately, by that point, the exterior landscaping was already completed and the carport was built onto the house.
The cost for our construction supervisor was about 3000€ for 9 inspections/site visits and 1 inspection before the warranty period ended.
Advantages:
- The supervisor conducts inspections during daylight hours (I was often only able to visit the site after dark due to the time of year)
- I didn’t always have to be present for interim inspections.
- Discussions take place between professionals – as a layperson, you’re at a serious disadvantage when the site manager and subcontractors say, “That’s fine,” “It’s within the standard,” or “According to DIN xyz, this is correct.”
- Many issues were resolved behind the scenes in our favor without me having to get involved or sometimes even before we found out about them.
- The supervisor was already involved during contract negotiations and helped negotiate certain services.
- As a layperson, you often lack the equipment (e.g., moisture measurement devices), don’t know what to look out for (e.g., waterproofing work), and are unfamiliar with standards such as DIN.
- Errors are identified immediately instead of only after they cause secondary damage.
- This might just be a feeling, but I imagine the craftsmen work more carefully when they know an expert will review their work (only our plasterers didn’t seem to care).
- More peace of mind.
Disadvantages:
3000€ less in the household budget.
Anecdote from next door:
In the neighboring house (built by the same company), our supervisor was brought in as an expert.
The dispute was about uneven plaster at the terrace door reveal, where the builder claimed it was within the standard (probably only if you have had a few beers). The expert report identified so many defects in the house that about half of the plaster would have needed to be removed and the window sills taken out again, among other issues. Unfortunately, by that point, the exterior landscaping was already completed and the carport was built onto the house.
First of all: The survey will be very unrepresentative because the people who click on the thread are more likely those who have already hired an expert; many who believe it can be done without one are not interested in the thread at all.
I think a building inspector is useful because as a layperson you can easily be talked into something, while the inspector can communicate at eye level with the construction company.
We have one from the Homeowners Protection Association; the cost is €312 (about $340) per site visit (a total of 9 visits).
I would involve the inspector from the very beginning. They usually know all the regionally relevant builders and are aware of which companies have previously had construction defects or not, and can advise on this when selecting a contractor. They can also review contract documents and ensure from the start that the contract is properly and customer-friendly structured.
I think a building inspector is useful because as a layperson you can easily be talked into something, while the inspector can communicate at eye level with the construction company.
We have one from the Homeowners Protection Association; the cost is €312 (about $340) per site visit (a total of 9 visits).
I would involve the inspector from the very beginning. They usually know all the regionally relevant builders and are aware of which companies have previously had construction defects or not, and can advise on this when selecting a contractor. They can also review contract documents and ensure from the start that the contract is properly and customer-friendly structured.
S
Sebastian797 Dec 2015 15:26If I work with an architect and manage individual trade contracts myself, I can usually do without a building inspector—after all, that’s what I have the architect for (assuming I hire them for that).
By the way, not only did the architect tell me this (which might make you suspicious), but also two expert assessors. Only if I had a lot of extra money...
So far, I have been satisfied with the architect’s recommendations...
Hence the (missing) answer to the survey: It depends. In principle, you have a construction supervisor on board... I wouldn’t recommend building without any expert knowledge.
By the way, not only did the architect tell me this (which might make you suspicious), but also two expert assessors. Only if I had a lot of extra money...
So far, I have been satisfied with the architect’s recommendations...
Hence the (missing) answer to the survey: It depends. In principle, you have a construction supervisor on board... I wouldn’t recommend building without any expert knowledge.
The last post by Sebastian is exactly the question I was just wondering about.
Is it advisable to hire an external consultant even when building with an architect? There are already several threads here discussing problems with architects. Of course, an external consultant can also make mistakes, but at least you would have an extra set of eyes and someone truly independent (possibly to identify any planning errors made by the architect). Or does doing this from the start give the impression that you don’t trust the architect? With an architect, I imagine the project feels a bit more personal than with a large developer.
What do the rest of you think, or do you agree with Sebastian that the architect alone is more than enough in this case?
Is it advisable to hire an external consultant even when building with an architect? There are already several threads here discussing problems with architects. Of course, an external consultant can also make mistakes, but at least you would have an extra set of eyes and someone truly independent (possibly to identify any planning errors made by the architect). Or does doing this from the start give the impression that you don’t trust the architect? With an architect, I imagine the project feels a bit more personal than with a large developer.
What do the rest of you think, or do you agree with Sebastian that the architect alone is more than enough in this case?
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