ᐅ Soundproofing Concerns with Partition Walls and Mechanical Ventilation Systems
Created on: 3 Nov 2015 20:43
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Ricard0
Hello everyone,
we are considering a plot of land where the associated developer plans to build a semi-detached house.
I have some concerns about the choice of walls, specifically whether the acoustic separation from my neighbor will be sufficient.
The exterior walls are planned to be made of approximately 15 cm (6 inches) thick sand-lime brick. The party wall between the two units will consist of two layers of 15 cm (6 inches) sand-lime brick with a 5 cm (2 inches) mineral fiber insulation board in between. According to the building specifications, this should provide sound insulation of 69 dB.
I find it difficult to imagine what this actually means. Although the relevant standard only requires 57 dB, it is from 1989.
What do you think about this party wall? Can I expect not to disturb my neighbor when watching movies, even if the volume is a bit higher? I understand this is hard to answer objectively due to many subjective factors. My main question is whether this meets current standards and what your experience with such walls is.
What effect would additional drywall (gypsum board) installed on the inside of the party wall have?
Additionally, a second point:
A central ventilation system with heat recovery will be installed.
Could this cause sound bridges? If yes, how can this be prevented?
My particular concern about sound insulation comes from my current living situation. In my old building, it seems there is only some hay and sand between the wooden beams in the floors. You can hear neighbors speaking at normal volume and during phone calls clearly. “Hearing” here really means understanding the words.
Best regards,
Ricard0
we are considering a plot of land where the associated developer plans to build a semi-detached house.
I have some concerns about the choice of walls, specifically whether the acoustic separation from my neighbor will be sufficient.
The exterior walls are planned to be made of approximately 15 cm (6 inches) thick sand-lime brick. The party wall between the two units will consist of two layers of 15 cm (6 inches) sand-lime brick with a 5 cm (2 inches) mineral fiber insulation board in between. According to the building specifications, this should provide sound insulation of 69 dB.
I find it difficult to imagine what this actually means. Although the relevant standard only requires 57 dB, it is from 1989.
What do you think about this party wall? Can I expect not to disturb my neighbor when watching movies, even if the volume is a bit higher? I understand this is hard to answer objectively due to many subjective factors. My main question is whether this meets current standards and what your experience with such walls is.
What effect would additional drywall (gypsum board) installed on the inside of the party wall have?
Additionally, a second point:
A central ventilation system with heat recovery will be installed.
Could this cause sound bridges? If yes, how can this be prevented?
My particular concern about sound insulation comes from my current living situation. In my old building, it seems there is only some hay and sand between the wooden beams in the floors. You can hear neighbors speaking at normal volume and during phone calls clearly. “Hearing” here really means understanding the words.
Best regards,
Ricard0
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Bieber08153 Nov 2015 22:56Ricard0 schrieb:
The party wall consists of two layers of 15cm (6 inches) calcium silicate blocks and a 5cm (2 inch) thick mineral fiber insulation board. That sounds great! When pouring the intermediate floor slab, the gap between the semi-detached units must be covered. Falling concrete could create a sound bridge. Otherwise, in my opinion, everything is perfect, so you don’t need to worry.
Ricard0 schrieb:
A central ventilation system with heat recovery will be installed.
Is it possible for sound bridges to occur in this case? Yes and no. Normally not between the semi-detached houses if the above applies, or if each unit has its own controlled mechanical ventilation system. Everything else then depends on the design and installation of the controlled ventilation system.
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Bauexperte4 Nov 2015 11:44Hello Ricardo,
It mainly depends on how large the gap between the two semi-detached houses is. In the described case, would it have to be >5 cm (2 inches)? With or without a basement?
This DIN standard is still valid. However, you should keep in mind that the use of standards is generally voluntary. They only become legally binding when referenced by laws or regulations, such as EU directives. Additionally, contracting parties can make the application of standards mandatory through agreements.
That depends less on the thickness of the partition or building separation wall and more on the size of the gap and its careful construction! Your question actually taught me again where hidden savings can be made; we generally build party walls using 24 cm (9.5 inches) thick sand-lime bricks plus mineral wool and an air gap.
No, why would it? Each semi-detached house receives its own ventilation system, right?
Regards, Bauexperte
Ricard0 schrieb:
The exterior walls are to be made from approximately 15 cm (6 inches) thick sand-lime bricks. The party wall between the semi-detached houses consists of two layers of 15 cm (6 inches) sand-lime bricks with a 5 cm (2 inches) thick mineral fiber insulation board between them. According to the building specification, this should provide sound insulation of 69 dB.
It mainly depends on how large the gap between the two semi-detached houses is. In the described case, would it have to be >5 cm (2 inches)? With or without a basement?
Ricard0 schrieb:
I can’t really imagine that. The DIN standard requires only 57 dB, but it dates back to 1989.
This DIN standard is still valid. However, you should keep in mind that the use of standards is generally voluntary. They only become legally binding when referenced by laws or regulations, such as EU directives. Additionally, contracting parties can make the application of standards mandatory through agreements.
Ricard0 schrieb:
What do you think about this party wall? Can I assume that I won’t disturb my neighbor when watching films? Even if the volume is turned up a bit?
That depends less on the thickness of the partition or building separation wall and more on the size of the gap and its careful construction! Your question actually taught me again where hidden savings can be made; we generally build party walls using 24 cm (9.5 inches) thick sand-lime bricks plus mineral wool and an air gap.
Ricard0 schrieb:
A central ventilation system with heat recovery will be installed.
Could this cause sound bridges? If so, how can these be prevented?
No, why would it? Each semi-detached house receives its own ventilation system, right?
Regards, Bauexperte
Hello Bieber,
That sounds good so far. Isn’t there a 5cm (2 inch) mineral wool insulation panel flush between the two partition walls? So nothing could fall in there.
Hello Building Expert!
The house will be built with a basement. I can’t find the size of the gap in the documents I have so far. Does the description of the partition wall also apply to the basement? Are semi-detached houses regularly connected anywhere, aside from the roof structure?
You build the partition wall from two layers of 24cm (9.5 inch) limestone blocks plus mineral wool. So that’s 18cm (7 inch) thicker than the current plan. From the stone thickness alone, that’s roughly equivalent to one of my walls in addition. Should I be concerned about this now?
Regarding the ventilation system:
I was referring to sound transmission within the house. Each unit gets its own system.
Hello Wastl,
Yes, I calculated it that way too. Still, I can’t quite imagine what 69 dB actually sounds like and thought that house builders in 1989 simply didn’t have such high requirements or expectations, which is why they accepted 57 dB.
Overall, your answers made me feel positive—except for the note from Bauexperte about apparently using two layers of 24cm (9.5 inch) limestone blocks...
Should I have a building inspector supervise that the separation between the units is carried out properly during construction? Over what time period can defects occur here? If this period is too long, it might become very expensive to have an expert monitor this. This issue is quite sensitive to me. I would even say it is the most important one.
Does anyone also have experience with the additional soundproofing effect of gypsum plasterboards on the partition wall?
Best regards and many thanks in advance
Ricard0
Bieber0815 schrieb:
That’s great! When pouring the concrete for the intermediate floor, the gap between the semi-detached houses must be covered. Falling concrete could create a sound bridge. Otherwise, in my opinion, everything looks perfect, no need to worry.
That sounds good so far. Isn’t there a 5cm (2 inch) mineral wool insulation panel flush between the two partition walls? So nothing could fall in there.
Hello Building Expert!
Bauexperte schrieb:
It mainly depends on how wide the gap between the two semi-detached units is. In the case you described, would it have to be more than 5cm (2 inches)? With a basement or without?
The house will be built with a basement. I can’t find the size of the gap in the documents I have so far. Does the description of the partition wall also apply to the basement? Are semi-detached houses regularly connected anywhere, aside from the roof structure?
That depends less on the thickness of the common or building partition wall and more on the size of the joint and its careful execution! Your question also reminded me where savings (hidden) might be made; we always build the common wall with 24cm (9.5 inch) limestone blocks, plus mineral wool and an air gap.
You build the partition wall from two layers of 24cm (9.5 inch) limestone blocks plus mineral wool. So that’s 18cm (7 inch) thicker than the current plan. From the stone thickness alone, that’s roughly equivalent to one of my walls in addition. Should I be concerned about this now?
Regarding the ventilation system:
I was referring to sound transmission within the house. Each unit gets its own system.
Hello Wastl,
Wastl schrieb:
A 3 dB reduction equals a “perceived” halving of noise. So if you go from 57 to 69 dB, that’s a 12 dB difference—which is an extremely large change!
Yes, I calculated it that way too. Still, I can’t quite imagine what 69 dB actually sounds like and thought that house builders in 1989 simply didn’t have such high requirements or expectations, which is why they accepted 57 dB.
Overall, your answers made me feel positive—except for the note from Bauexperte about apparently using two layers of 24cm (9.5 inch) limestone blocks...
Should I have a building inspector supervise that the separation between the units is carried out properly during construction? Over what time period can defects occur here? If this period is too long, it might become very expensive to have an expert monitor this. This issue is quite sensitive to me. I would even say it is the most important one.
Does anyone also have experience with the additional soundproofing effect of gypsum plasterboards on the partition wall?
Best regards and many thanks in advance
Ricard0
What you need to pay attention to: Build 2 completely separate basements. That means 2 separate waterproof concrete shells (floating slabs or whatever). Do not use a continuous slab! Otherwise, you create such a large sound bridge that no matter what you do upstairs, you will always hear the neighbors.
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