Hello.
Since the 2014 Energy Saving Ordinance will apply from next year, I have a few questions.
We are planning to build a single-family house next year or the year after and are currently still looking for a suitable plot of land. Nevertheless, we are already considering the design of the house and thinking about what we want and what we don’t.
What we want is a gas heating system with underfloor heating and a fireplace stove with passive warm air distribution to the upper floor.
We are still unsure about a controlled ventilation system with heat recovery. This would make the fireplace stove more expensive because it would have to be air-independent.
What are the experiences with noise?
Are there noise bridges?
Can you hear the ventilation?
Is it possible to use the ventilation to capture warm air from the fireplace and then distribute it throughout the house via heat recovery, or bring it to the rooms being ventilated?
What we don’t want is a solar system for hot water preparation.
Is it possible to comply with the 2014 Energy Saving Ordinance with a gas heating system without solar?
Best regards
Rafaelsen
Since the 2014 Energy Saving Ordinance will apply from next year, I have a few questions.
We are planning to build a single-family house next year or the year after and are currently still looking for a suitable plot of land. Nevertheless, we are already considering the design of the house and thinking about what we want and what we don’t.
What we want is a gas heating system with underfloor heating and a fireplace stove with passive warm air distribution to the upper floor.
We are still unsure about a controlled ventilation system with heat recovery. This would make the fireplace stove more expensive because it would have to be air-independent.
What are the experiences with noise?
Are there noise bridges?
Can you hear the ventilation?
Is it possible to use the ventilation to capture warm air from the fireplace and then distribute it throughout the house via heat recovery, or bring it to the rooms being ventilated?
What we don’t want is a solar system for hot water preparation.
Is it possible to comply with the 2014 Energy Saving Ordinance with a gas heating system without solar?
Best regards
Rafaelsen
B
Bauexperte21 Oct 2015 17:40Hello,
Regards, Bauexperte
Rafaelsen schrieb:It has actually been in effect for quite some time; what you mean is the 2016 Energy Saving Ordinance. It is labeled 2016 to avoid confusion with the currently valid Energy Saving Ordinance.
Since the 2014 Energy Saving Ordinance will apply from next year, I have some questions.
Rafaelsen schrieb:That’s certainly an understandable wish, but it will not meet the requirements of the upcoming Energy Saving Ordinance; it won’t even meet the reference house standard.
What we want is a gas heating system with underfloor heating.
Rafaelsen schrieb:Since from 01.04.16 only KfW 55 standard buildings receive subsidies, you won’t be able to avoid installing a mechanical ventilation system.
We are still unsure about a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery. That would increase the cost of the chimney because it would have to be independent of the indoor air.
Rafaelsen schrieb:Under the valid 2014 Energy Saving Ordinance and with mechanical ventilation including heat recovery, it might just barely be possible—unless you build in a place like Kahlen ASten. No, under the 2016 Energy Saving Ordinance it’s not possible; not even with solar.
Is it possible to get approval for a gas heating system without solar under the 2014 Energy Saving Ordinance?
Regards, Bauexperte
R
Rafaelsen21 Oct 2015 18:13Ok. So, Energy Saving Ordinance 2016.
As far as I understand, the KfW 70 house will then become the standard.
If the concept we have planned with a gas condensing boiler, underfloor heating, and mechanical ventilation with heat recovery (MVHR) is not feasible, then we will probably have to consider whether we want to build at all or rather choose an existing property.
Building will become even more expensive because of this.
As far as I understand, the KfW 70 house will then become the standard.
If the concept we have planned with a gas condensing boiler, underfloor heating, and mechanical ventilation with heat recovery (MVHR) is not feasible, then we will probably have to consider whether we want to build at all or rather choose an existing property.
Building will become even more expensive because of this.
N
nordanney21 Oct 2015 18:22Give up gas (at least as a heat source), initially forego the fireplace (you can still plan for a chimney), and switch to a heat pump instead.
If you’re really attached to gas and don’t want anything else, then I feel sorry for you.
You always have to make compromises; for most home builders, there is a big gap between expensive “wishes” and what’s financially feasible.
I/we also had a long wish list that eventually had to be sacrificed because of the budget.
If you’re really attached to gas and don’t want anything else, then I feel sorry for you.
You always have to make compromises; for most home builders, there is a big gap between expensive “wishes” and what’s financially feasible.
I/we also had a long wish list that eventually had to be sacrificed because of the budget.
R
Rafaelsen21 Oct 2015 19:03The thing is, if you are already building a chimney for a heating stove, you can, for a small extra cost, install a double flue and connect the gas heating to the second flue.
I don’t want a heat pump for cost and durability reasons. I have seen with my parents’ neighbors that there are constant problems with photovoltaic systems after 8 or 10 years. Or with those who use heat pumps and are far from satisfied. High electricity consumption, low annual performance factor, constant adjustment issues, and so on. They say it’s just bad luck, but somehow everyone seems to have bad luck.
In addition, the initial investment costs of a heat pump are higher, and operating it is more expensive. Natural gas will remain cheap for many decades. We all know how electricity prices have developed, and there is unlikely to be any change unless the government reverses the energy transition, which is rather unlikely.
So no heat pump. I also don’t want a solar system for cost reasons. By the time such a system has paid off, it will have already deteriorated.
Who is the best person to talk to about this? An architect? A builder?
I don’t want a heat pump for cost and durability reasons. I have seen with my parents’ neighbors that there are constant problems with photovoltaic systems after 8 or 10 years. Or with those who use heat pumps and are far from satisfied. High electricity consumption, low annual performance factor, constant adjustment issues, and so on. They say it’s just bad luck, but somehow everyone seems to have bad luck.
In addition, the initial investment costs of a heat pump are higher, and operating it is more expensive. Natural gas will remain cheap for many decades. We all know how electricity prices have developed, and there is unlikely to be any change unless the government reverses the energy transition, which is rather unlikely.
So no heat pump. I also don’t want a solar system for cost reasons. By the time such a system has paid off, it will have already deteriorated.
Who is the best person to talk to about this? An architect? A builder?
For us, the current Energy Saving Ordinance applies. We have gas heating plus a controlled mechanical ventilation system, and we only just managed to comply.
Does anyone have the regulation chain handy explaining why gas heating is not allowed under the 2016 Energy Saving Ordinance?
I would always prefer controlled mechanical ventilation over solar thermal and photovoltaic systems, because I don’t like sitting in stale air and it’s better for the new building.
In my opinion, gas prices will remain stable over the next few years, while electricity prices will increase. Thanks to lower demand and stable supply (y).
Does anyone have the regulation chain handy explaining why gas heating is not allowed under the 2016 Energy Saving Ordinance?
I would always prefer controlled mechanical ventilation over solar thermal and photovoltaic systems, because I don’t like sitting in stale air and it’s better for the new building.
In my opinion, gas prices will remain stable over the next few years, while electricity prices will increase. Thanks to lower demand and stable supply (y).
N
nordanney21 Oct 2015 19:28P.S. Heat pump technology is actually very old and extremely simple. If you don’t trust this technology, you should probably get rid of your refrigerator and freezer, as they use the same principle. Operating costs are generally lower, almost maintenance-free, and you don’t need a chimney sweep.
I believe you haven’t seriously looked into this technology and don’t really want to.
By the way, we heat 300 sqm (3,230 sq ft) with a heat pump, including hot water, in the first year of use (which is usually more expensive for heating) for about €55–60 (5 people at a comfortable 22°C (72°F)) per month.
From my own experience, gas boilers are very unreliable. In our previous house, we spent around €3,000 over 10 years on maintenance and repairs.
Now that you have a negative report, will you switch to pellets?
What I want to say is that you have to engage with the subject yourself. But giving up on your dream home just because of prejudices (this also applies to the price of heat pumps) would be foolish.
I believe you haven’t seriously looked into this technology and don’t really want to.
By the way, we heat 300 sqm (3,230 sq ft) with a heat pump, including hot water, in the first year of use (which is usually more expensive for heating) for about €55–60 (5 people at a comfortable 22°C (72°F)) per month.
From my own experience, gas boilers are very unreliable. In our previous house, we spent around €3,000 over 10 years on maintenance and repairs.
Now that you have a negative report, will you switch to pellets?
What I want to say is that you have to engage with the subject yourself. But giving up on your dream home just because of prejudices (this also applies to the price of heat pumps) would be foolish.
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